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Post by wollastoni on Feb 12, 2015 8:53:35 GMT
I have seen this auction on Ebay, the seller says it is 2 males and the price is under 50 USD for the moment. But the right one looks like a female to me ? What do you think ? Females are sold above 2000 USD so it is strange... |
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Post by trehopr1 on Feb 12, 2015 9:21:38 GMT
I agree Wollastoni that this seems strange. I too have seen this auction before but, really didn't give it much more thought beyond the asking price. I can't see very much detail regarding claspers or not since my IPad has limited clarity when enlarging photo's. Adam could probably discern the sex upon a quick glance. The overall size seems larger than the left specimen and the color of the wings recto looks duller and less vibrant. I might also add that I have seen that "squashed abdomen" look before on many papered female butterflies that were knocked off before they had a chance to lay any eggs! Perhaps the seller doesn't realize he really has something special that has been overlooked by others before him? Maybe a quick investment of less than 50 USD will be a big payday for a lucky buyer.
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Post by bobw on Feb 12, 2015 11:25:47 GMT
The abdomen certainly looks like a female but it's not the right angle to be sure that there are no claspers.
Bob
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Post by wollastoni on Feb 12, 2015 12:01:23 GMT
Wings seem rounder too.
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Post by timmsyrj on Feb 12, 2015 14:29:32 GMT
This is the same pair that the bugmaniac featured on the insectnet thread about a pair of zalmoxis for auction in Paris, in the announcements section, yes it's a female and the price will rise, it looks in good condition apart from antennae damage, hell it could have its head and abdomen missing, it's a female.
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Post by bobw on Feb 12, 2015 14:46:29 GMT
If you read the full description you will see "(*) About shown pictures : The pictures give you indication of the insect and it is very possible to recieve another specimen of the same species. So minor differences in color or shape may always occur."
Therefore it's not advisable to bid without asking the seller first whether the pictured specimens are definitely the ones being sold. Otherwise it's probable that two males would be sent out.
Bob
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Post by wollastoni on Feb 12, 2015 14:59:28 GMT
That would be scandalous...
I have asked the seller if the picture really represents the specimen he is selling and will let you know of his answer.
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mantisboy
Junior Aurelian
Posts: 81
Country: U.S.A.
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Post by mantisboy on Feb 12, 2015 15:30:25 GMT
If you read the full description you will see "(*) About shown pictures : The pictures give you indication of the insect and it is very possible to recieve another specimen of the same species. So minor differences in color or shape may always occur."
Therefore it's not advisable to bid without asking the seller first whether the pictured specimens are definitely the ones being sold. Otherwise it's probable that two males would be sent out.
Bob
That's for most of his auctions, this one is different: Attachments:
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Post by Adam Cotton on Feb 12, 2015 16:27:13 GMT
To me it looks like a male with a squashed abdomen. I don't think it is a female.
Adam.
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Post by timmsyrj on Feb 12, 2015 16:47:02 GMT
On the insectnet thread I mention, he does reply to a question regarding the sex of this specimen with a yes it's a female. The wings do look broader and more rounded and the overall appearance is a larger specimen, which it could be, but a large male, underside colouration is slightly different but I've never seen a female except the pair in the Paris auction thread.
Rich
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Post by Adam Cotton on Feb 12, 2015 17:12:24 GMT
Well, it could be a female, but I have often seen male Papilios with abdomens squashed like this. There appears to be what could be a clasper in the shadow at the tip of the abdomen. Of course I could be wrong, especially if the seller says it is a female, but I certainly wouldn't be interested in bidding for it unless I could see a good quality photo of the tip of the abdomen.
Oh, and I do agree that the wings are slightly broader than those of the male on the left, but I need more than that to convince me.
Adam.
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Post by deliasfanatic on Feb 12, 2015 18:35:52 GMT
The answer, of course, is to see a closeup photo of the abdomen, and/or the recto wing surface. Female zalmoxis is very pale, almost insipid-looking, compared to the bright blue male. I have a number of Graphium and Eurytides that were marked "female" but they're not; they simply have large, rather squashed abdomens. Unlike most butterflies, female zalmoxis don't differ at all in wingshape; I'm looking at photos of several now, and they are not even slightly more rounded or larger. Here's a photo with 2 females at lower right (not my specimens):  IMG_5293 by D B, on Flickr |
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Post by wollastoni on Feb 12, 2015 22:03:27 GMT
To answer bob's warning, Alain has just confirmed me the picture of the ebay auction does represent the 2 specimens he is selling.
Personnally the abdomen does not seem squashed to me, it is not flat but well rounded.
So it should be a female or a very fat male.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Feb 12, 2015 22:08:01 GMT
You would expect that if it really is a female the seller would say so in his eBay listing, and also post a clear photo of the abdomen. It seems strange to me that he has not done so.
Adam.
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Post by cabintom on Feb 12, 2015 22:27:10 GMT
It seems strange to me that he has not done so. I agree... you'd think with the high price a female specimen would automatically command that he'd make it clear if it was a female. The fact that it's being left ambiguous makes me think it's a male, and that the seller has purposefully left it ambiguous with the hopes that a buyer will take a risk and pay much more than they would otherwise. I could very well be wrong, but I don't think what I'm suggesting is far from the realm of possibility. Edit: After a cursory glance through his ebay store, I also find it curious that his habit is to advertise pairs when that's what he's selling, but he's not specified this as a pair. |
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