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Post by trehopr1 on Apr 23, 2015 4:30:28 GMT
I thought it might be informative for all members to be aware of which places in this world are currently "At Risk" locations for collecting. I certainly don't know them all. And I'm sure that some may even come as a surprise. I enlist any and all help or suggestions that fellow members can provide. I will note below the most obvious first followed by as many as I can think of off the top of my head. If any of my places is incorrect than please let me know why.
Obvious: North Korea, Afganistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Burma, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Columbia, Peru.
Others: Mexico (drugs + gangsters + hostage taking) Sri Lanka (rebel activity and everything that goes with it) Vietnam (too much ordinance lying about undiscovered)
Admittedly, I will need help listing African countries which are questionable as well as any of the former Russian satellites, or other middle east countries I may have overlooked. There may as well be places within Indonesia or Malaysia I am oblivious to.The country of Nicaragua should probably be on my list of others due to the militaristic stance which it has had in the not too distant past but, maybe things are different there now. Thanks to everyone for their help !
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Post by xavm (Xavier) on Apr 23, 2015 11:37:02 GMT
Hello,
I would agree several countries are not safe, but will disagree with your statement about:
Lebanon, Peru and Mexico where places might be unsafe, but others not at risk at all.
You completely forgot countries where a permit to collect is mandatory and collecting without is a very high risk for collectors.
BW, XavM
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Post by cabintom on Apr 23, 2015 11:48:52 GMT
Personally, I wouldn't bother constructing such a list. The security landscape can change with little notice in many of this world's countries, so unless this list were to be constantly updated it could actually lead people into dangerous situations. Much better would be consulting this: travel.gc.ca/travelling/advisoriesThe Canadian government stays on top of travel advisories, so no need to worry that it's out of date. (And judging by their security entry for the Ituri region of D.R. Congo, it's fairly accurate as well.)
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Post by Paul K on Apr 23, 2015 12:01:11 GMT
There is no safe country in this world. If you in the wrong place at the wrong time you can get killed in your own home town. High developed countries ? No crime there ? I don't think so. Of course the countries at war are more dangerous then the others but other then that it is all propaganda, discrimination, politics and myths. North Korea - there is no way they will let you go inside. It is the most insulated country in the world .
Happy traveling Paul
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Post by africaone on Apr 23, 2015 15:29:56 GMT
Sudan, Somalia, NE RD Congo, Nigeria, RCA,
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Post by trehopr1 on Apr 23, 2015 18:55:32 GMT
Xavm, I didn't mention or bring into discussion the topic of "permits" since that is a top priority issue wherever one goes. I do agree with your remark that there probably are some places within unstable countries like Mexico, Peru, and Lebanon where one may feel comparatively safe. Perhaps the trouble is more localized in the mountains, desert areas etc. However, the point is that the country itself is widely considered unstable. So therefore, it is a "questionable " place to visit for collecting reasons. Cabintom, thankyou for posting that site on traveling advisories. Since, you do some traveling with your job you have to keep abreast of up to date information. As you mentioned the security landscape can change with little notice. I agree and, that is why such sites exist for travelers as well as news reporting. However, I feel that once a country is thought of as being unstable or outright dangerous --- no amount of political upheaval (even overnight) is going to suddenly make it "A-ok" to go there. It will most likely take MANY years of calm and humanitarian efforts to turn around a dark past. I feel there is nothing wrong with putting a list out there of "questionable "places to go collecting. I'm sure 99% of them have had a LONG history of negativity. And while most may be obvious to people I find it interesting to hear more about the places not so often spoken of OR those which fly under the radar. Paul K made a cursory blanket statement that " there is no safe country in this world". I don't disagree. Wrong place, wrong time, and wrong contacts --- you may be killed. However, the one glaring difference between a safe, stable well governed country and an unstable one is that at least in a safe country the police and government agencies will at least INVESTIGATE the circumstances of your demise and will hold those accountable. Elsewhere, it more like the wild west. People come up dead or missing and nobody seems to care except the loved one's family. Thankyou Africaone for your kind and thoughtful imput. I was aware of Somalia, Sudan, and Nigeria. However, I didn't think of them at the time of writing the thread. I didn't know about the other 2 places you mentioned so I find that informative. Again, the whole idea here is to spread knowledge of questionable places. I don't mean to step on any toes or ruffle any feathers. If a country already has a black-eye among the international community and among travelers as well --- than any mentions made here won't make any difference.
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Post by cabintom on Apr 24, 2015 2:03:16 GMT
I find it amusing that Thierry specifically lists NE D.R. Congo. I definitely don't disagree with that assessment (it should be on any list of this sort), yet at the same time I haven't hesitated to travel around the area and have yet to feel particularly unsafe ... which considering a few situations is probably a crazy thing for me to say. However, I feel that once a country is thought of as being unstable or outright dangerous --- no amount of political upheaval (even overnight) is going to suddenly make it "A-ok" to go there. It will most likely take MANY years of calm and humanitarian efforts to turn around a dark past. This is a fair point. My concern is more with countries/areas not being added to the list soon enough.
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Post by africaone on Apr 24, 2015 10:06:43 GMT
Thankyou Africaone for your kind and thoughtful imput. I was aware of Somalia, Sudan, and Nigeria. However, I didn't think of them at the time of writing the thread. I didn't know about the other 2 places you mentioned so I find that informative. Again, the whole idea here is to spread knowledge of questionable places. I don't mean to step on any toes or ruffle any feathers. If a country already has a black-eye among the international community and among travelers as well --- than any mentions made here won't make any difference. RCA and RDC because of the civil war (a civil war in Africa means that everything worse can happen to you at any time, kidnapping, killing, injuring and i can assure you it is better a bullet in the head immediately than a dead in African mode ). Unsafe can mean also that you will have problem during all your trip with authorities or locals (for many different reasons, the first being money and believing, what is the case of most of the African countries), this is espacially the case with person that don't know excatly what to do and when in such situation (experience allows to travel in such countries). A drunk guy in Africa is probably the most dangerous thing that can happen to a traveller espacially if he is an autority or a military. fortunetely permits is just a problem of money there and in Africa you learn quickly that discussing is the best key to avoid big problems
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Post by timmsyrj on Apr 24, 2015 15:07:08 GMT
I think a lot depends on the nationality of the collector as to which country is safe to collect in, with or without permits, the fact that you can afford to go to these places tells the locals you've got a bit of money, some nationalities in the wrong area are hostage targets etc, there's a lot to consider in this topic. Also knowledge and experience of different environments also helps, then there's the wildlife( non human) to consider, if you're going on a collecting trip, you're not going to be looking for common stuff just off the beach, chances are your heading to a remote area for a chance in a lifetime Delias or Papilio, who knows what snakes etc are around.
Rich
P.S I would also add the U.K to the list, the conservationists and anti collector brigade have a vicious sting in the tail and nasty bite!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 16:11:08 GMT
I agree Rich, the UK is one of the most anti collecting places in the world, PC do gooders behind every bush, don't know anything about anything but that does not stop them self righteously spouting off at the mouth, amongst the powers that be holding a net is a far worse crime than child abuse.
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Post by trehopr1 on Apr 24, 2015 17:11:00 GMT
I have long been curious as to what exactly can or does happen in the UK if one is found collecting. Outside of major metropolitan areas and perhaps large towns I would think nobody would really care. The more rural folks see butterflies all the time. Can you really be fined? Will someone actually come to your door and say that you were seen with net in hand and don't do it again? Please elaborate.... The UK still remains the hotbed of entomology with hundreds if not thousands still actively involved in its various organizations, museums, insect fairs etc. Much literature comes from there and I'm sure some notable authorities as well (would not mind hearing who those current entomological greats are). So why all all the hub-bub over swinging a net in England of all places?
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Post by africaone on Apr 24, 2015 20:41:05 GMT
I thought it might be informative for all members to be aware of which places in this world are currently "At Risk" locations for collecting. and the winner is .... England !
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 21:10:09 GMT
To answer the question of why is the UK so anti collecting one has to take into consideration the way of thinking that prevails now among our lords and masters in the house of commons which has trickled down to Mr and Mrs whatever over the last 20 years which is very liberal left wing in it's politically correct views, they have learned that if you want to get across a particular way of thinking against a harmless minority you make a big song and dance about it in national newspapers and hey presto the bias view is widespread, so what you have is an aggressive self righteous bunch of people who in their ignorance think that they are fighting for the good when in reality they are annoying a small group of dedicated, knowledgeable people who are quietly going about their studies building up a sensible collection for future reference, what these idiots don't understand as they tuck into their fast food at a restraunt that has probably been built on a prime butterfly habitat in the first place is that without entomological records future generations of entomologists would know nothing about the given fauna of a region of times past without collectors doing their job, the lunatics are running the asylum now and in the UK the ones in the know are very much in the minority. The other problem is the British butterfly conservation society who buy up all the prime butterfly locations, pat themselves on the back at how great they are, ban all collecting, aquire even more do gooders to it's acidic way of thinking, in some cases ruin the habitat by letting it go to seed and become a complete pain in the backside to anyone who tries to reason with them
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Post by deliasfanatic on Apr 24, 2015 22:31:43 GMT
Dunc (and others in the UK) - you ought to print that, carry it with you, and hand a copy to anyone trying to confront you. No other words necessary.
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Post by trehopr1 on Apr 25, 2015 1:13:00 GMT
I've edited the title of this thread to something a bit "softer". It seems that use of the word dangerous comes across too strongly and has far too many negative connotations associated with it. If I have offended anyone's sensibilities than I humbly apologize.... Skandinavisk, I would never of dreamed Sweden would be a country of questionable safety. Are these grenades and bombs leftovers from WW2 or are there seriously bad factions out there with access to such heavy artillery? Also, I might add that the authorities in Palawan are way over the top when it comes to fines and imprisonment. Up to 7 years in prison? That's crazy.
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