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Post by timmsyrj on Apr 25, 2015 6:53:46 GMT
Well said Dunc, as regards what can happen if you are seen collecting in the wild, you could get reported to police or other authority, they'll probably get your car registration and the first you'll know about it is when someone from DEFRA comes knocking on your door with a warrant with the powers to confiscate your entire collection and fine you, as I've reared all British species over the years I've not collected in the U.K for probably 20 years now, as I've said before you can strim, plough and torch waste ground with no worries, it's cleaning up the environment, but carry a butterfly net on the same ground and you could end up kissing goodbye to your collection, it's not worth the risk.
Rich
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Post by timmsyrj on Apr 25, 2015 7:01:30 GMT
The "current entomological great" to come from the U.K would have to be our very own Mr Adam Cotton, Papilio guru but not a Dr. Though he had the good sense to get out of Blighty years ago leaving us mere mortals behind. lol.
Rich
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Post by trehopr1 on Apr 25, 2015 7:36:27 GMT
Wow, that's pretty heavy handed Rich when an agency can confiscate your collection over walking about with net in hand ! Just how is it then that you manage to have insect fairs over there. Sure the stuff is dead already but, that is something of a contradiction. Are these sellers at these shows only allowed to sell old specimens from collections? Are only imported exotic insects allowed to be sold? The whole idea of a lively market for dead insect specimens being carried on every year 3,4, or 5 times is really unbelievable in light of the seriousness of catching your own things .
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Post by timmsyrj on Apr 25, 2015 16:01:11 GMT
Captive bred specimens and pre legislation specimens are allowed, as long as you can prove it if challenged, you need a permit to sell british stuff on eBay legally and I imagine this is the same for the shows, I've not looked into it as I only sell imported tropical stuff, I've had loads of ornithoptera for sale in the past, all with permits and all non protected foreign insects are allowed.
About half our species are protected from sale unless you have license, don't get me wrong it's still possible to collect in the U.K quite legally but not to sell and IF you get reported you can have your collection taken, you will be able to get them back if you can prove they are legally taken or captive bred, you can't collect in national parks, SSSI areas, reserves so common species on non protected sites are ok.
The AES show didn't allow Ornithoptera specimens even with permits at one time, don't know if that's still the case as I've not been to it for years now.
Species like our Papilio machaon britanicus , A.adippe, the marsh and heath fritillaries are protected from any collecting but they are easily available as livestock every year from various breeders or dealers and all very easy to breed, with the receipt to prove they were bought as livestock you can get licence, I think it's a Natural England licence you require.
Rich
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Post by nomihoudai on Apr 28, 2015 16:58:25 GMT
I am sorry that my reply comes kind of late, but I was not registered yet to this forum. The initial post displays so much misinformation that I just felt like I had to register.
I don't have to add too much to the general reply that one can give, cabintom and Jan have already stated it very well. The whole topic has no objective basis. There are multiple reasons for this. First of all the list of "dangerous" or "questionable" countries will constantly fluctuate as ethnic or political conflicts arise. Second the list of countries will be completely different depending on where you come from! Your list of countries for example just perfectly reflects the current list of Bogeyman nations issued by the US government. When I was in the McGuire Centre I found specimens out of North Korea from the 90's. I asked them how they got them and they explained me they came from some Polish guy, when they asked him how he made it to North Korea he explained that it was just a regular travel destination for them. Poland had been communist under the Soviet regime and therefore North Koreans like them. It always depends on your point of view or background.
You are giving a list of 14 countries, of these 14 countries I know people that went to, or collected in, 10 of them within the last 5 years! I do understand that you only had good intentions about starting the topic but it would be good if you would form a proper opinion about some of these countries. Speaking about "rebel" issues in Sri Lanka is so out-of date and somewhat ridiculing the Tamil conflict in northern Sri Lanka (yet again, I know plenty of people from there. I do not agree with their war, but that is how ethnic clashes sometimes end up.). Vietnam is just a regular holiday destination where plenty of people visit and I won't start discussing about Iran now because that will just take too much to write down.
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Post by wollastoni on Apr 28, 2015 18:02:00 GMT
Welcome to the Forum, Claude ! I am glad to see you here.  I fully agree with your answer. My advice before going to any foreign countries to collect butterflies : - check your foreign affair ministery recommendations on this country, - discuss with someone who LIVE in this country to understand the possible issues, - discuss with someone of your country who has already collecting there. Then make your own decision. I would add that any collecting trip in tropical countries is dangerous (from small risk to HUGE risks) and it has always been the case. Tropical collecting trips have never been and will never be a 100% safe hobby. Read Meek's or Larsen's adventures to remind you this fact. |
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Post by cabintom on Apr 28, 2015 21:40:33 GMT
Read Meek's or Larsen's adventures to remind you this fact. Larsen's book taught me that I need to be very careful of the kind of clothing I choose to wear while out collecting in Central Africa. He made the mistake of wearing nice, new, military-like boots and, if I remember correctly, this led to a military man jumping to the conclusion that he was some kind of spy/mercenary and arresting him. Had he worn a different pair of boots he likely would have had a pleasant day... though no story to tell. |
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Post by trehopr1 on Apr 28, 2015 22:12:08 GMT
Nomihoudai, I thoroughly respect your remarks and opinions. As you mentioned, I only started this thread with the best of intentions. Admittedly, I never realized all of the possible variables. I did edit the original title of the thread (as mentioned in the post at the top of this page) and, I further "humbly apologized" for offending anyone's sensibilities.
I myself consider the topic dead and null at this point. So let's move on. I will keep my posts focused strictly on insects and the passion of this wonderful, fulfilling hobby. Wollastoni summed it up best only 2 posts above this one --- and I wholeheartedly (liked) and agreed with his comment.
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Post by africaone on Apr 29, 2015 14:25:46 GMT
Read Meek's or Larsen's adventures to remind you this fact. Larsen's book taught me that I need to be very careful of the kind of clothing I choose to wear while out collecting in Central Africa. He made the mistake of wearing nice, new, military-like boots and, if I remember correctly, this led to a military man jumping to the conclusion that he was some kind of spy/mercenary and arresting him. Had he worn a different pair of boots he likely would have had a pleasant day... though no story to tell. that's true
I am born and lived in Congo during the all dictator Mobutu era (also after). i learned to never take military clothes (because of mercenary trauma in the population and in military forces, particulary wher I lived in Katanga). It is the case for other countries in Africa. during my youth I had some adventures with this problem (unfortunetely, i had to tell it in English, too difficult for me), the positive side is that I learned very quickly what and how to do in such critical situation (you learn quickly with a AK47 on you face when being 16 old and alone in the bush).
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Post by mygos on Apr 29, 2015 14:35:35 GMT
Larsen's book taught me that I need to be very careful of the kind of clothing I choose to wear while out collecting in Central Africa. He made the mistake of wearing nice, new, military-like boots and, if I remember correctly, this led to a military man jumping to the conclusion that he was some kind of spy/mercenary and arresting him. Had he worn a different pair of boots he likely would have had a pleasant day... though no story to tell. that's true
I am born and lived in Congo during the all dictator Mobutu era (also after). i learned to never take military clothes (because of mercenary trauma in the population and in military forces, particulary wher I lived in Katanga). It is the case for other countries in Africa. during my youth I had some adventures with this problem (unfortunetely, i had to tell it in English, too difficult for me), the positive side is that I learned very quickly what and how to do in such critical situation (you learn quickly with a AK47 on you face when being 16 old and alone in the bush).
I fully agree with Tom and Thierry. While my first trip in Cameroon in 1974 around M'Balmayo, I was taken to the Police station as I was wearing military clothes ... A+, Michel |
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Post by mikelock34 on Jun 6, 2015 14:05:15 GMT
I have traveled to thirty-four countries and forty-one of the States. The most dangerous country I have ever visited is the United States. The USA is also the worst I have encountered for dealing with government permits and restrictions.
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Post by Paul K on Jun 6, 2015 14:38:16 GMT
Hello Mike and welcome the oldest member of the forum.  Paul |
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Post by nostrodamus on Jun 9, 2015 19:13:17 GMT
Hi all,
I think we forgot Algeria ! It is and it will be always my dream to collect there one day in those mountains......I was born too late....
David |
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