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Post by jonesy610 on Mar 2, 2016 0:17:03 GMT
Hello all,
Andrew here, relatively new to the hobby and extremely excited to learn from all of the very seasoned collectors here. If you could indulge me slightly, I feel that my spreading abilities are reasonable, attaining symmetric spreads without damaging the specimen. My one issue that I still struggle immensely with is opening the scent folds on papillionidae. Is there a proper methodology for performing this task, or some secret or trick anyone might like to pass on. Any help in this regard would be much appreciated as most of my favorite species have these diaphanous folds that just seem to shred when I try to open them. Thank you in advance.
Andrew
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Post by timmsyrj on Mar 2, 2016 9:23:50 GMT
The specimens need to be properly relaxed, 24 hours or more in a relaxing box, before attempting to set them, hold the specimen between thumb and forefinger and blow the wings open, the sent folds should open up when you blow on them. When you set them place the setting strips over the wings and prior to moving the hindwing into position lift the scent fold with a bent setting needle so it's above the setting strip, if it's relaxed properly as you move the wing into the correct position the scent fold should open out under the setting strip. Once you have the wing in the correct position ( not all the scent fold will be under the setting strip ) use the bent setting needle to open the scent fold out flat and carefully place a long ( I use a No 7 insect pin ) pin and over pin the scent fold, sticking the end of the pin into the groove on the setting board going under the abdomen of the specimen. it's a little confusing I appreciate, I will take a photo of some semperi I have on the boards but this is what they should look like when they are off the boards..  Rich |
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Post by timmsyrj on Mar 2, 2016 9:36:31 GMT
How they are pinned out..  4 x No 7 entomological pins going over the scent folds and under the abdomen and pinned into the side of the groove in the board. Rich |
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Post by wollastoni on Mar 2, 2016 9:37:09 GMT
Wow, seems complicated indeed !
A video tutorial would be great if someone has the time to do so.
Splendid specimens Rich !
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Post by timmsyrj on Mar 2, 2016 9:54:23 GMT
Yes it can be, practice makes perfect as with all setting you will make mistakes, try it on a few cheaper specimens first, but I can't stress enough, proper relaxed specimens are crucial, otherwise you'll just tear the scent fold with the setting strip.
If I get some more specimens with scent folds to set I'll try and remember to take photos as I go, you really need 3 hands just for setting them so holding a camera as well is impossible and I don't have a tripod.
It's only when you set out the scent folds that you realise Atrophaneura aidoneus is not directly related to varuna but is actually related to priapus, hageni and sycorax having white scent folds with a pink edge, varuna have black / dark grey scent folds.
Rich
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Post by Paul K on Mar 2, 2016 12:50:46 GMT
Personally I don't open them.
I leave them in natural position.
Once I have seen a courtship of Troides aeacus malaiianus and male while flying over and around the female opened those scent folds . They were really visible from about 15 m distance as they would flying in the fog.
Paul
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Post by trehopr1 on Mar 2, 2016 16:27:21 GMT
Wow, you have certainly improvised a wonderful methodology in working with these glamorous butterflies ! Your specimens are simply beautiful. Don't see that kind of fine work done so well very often.... Bravo timmsyrj ! !
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Post by wollastoni on Mar 2, 2016 16:54:24 GMT
Agree, you are an artist, Rich !
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Post by deliasfanatic on Mar 2, 2016 18:01:39 GMT
I agree with all of Rich's techniques. My only difference is that I set with forceps and not a setting pin, and I use the forceps to open the fold after it's placed under the setting paper strips.
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Post by jonesy610 on Mar 2, 2016 20:35:45 GMT
Thank all of you so much for your replies, nice to hear from other collectors. I have been attempting a similar method to that described by Timmsyrj, and still am having trouble getting the folds to open. I am left to assume that my relaxing process is not working out. I have tried at least ten different relaxing methods and have left specimens in the relaxer for as long as a week and they are all still more stiff than any of the videos and pictures I have seen on here and youtube. Guess I will just have to experiment more. Again, thanks for the responses, living where I do it is nice to have an online outlet with people of similar interest.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 2, 2016 22:03:12 GMT
Personally I don't open them. I leave them in natural position. Paul If you don't open them it can be difficult to identify some species, for example some of the Chinese Byasa look very similar, but if the scent folds are opened you can see the difference straight away. Adam. |
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Post by timmsyrj on Mar 3, 2016 7:15:27 GMT
Personally I don't open them. I leave them in natural position. Paul If you don't open them it can be difficult to identify some species, for example some of the Chinese Byasa look very similar, but if the scent folds are opened you can see the difference straight away. Adam. I appreciate what Paul says, everyone has their own personal style, I prefer to see the full wing surface area but as for being "natural" the way we set them is not natural for any species, most don't open their wings at all except to fly, I set them to display the wings so I display as much as possible. As for an "artist" I do like a beer or three and have been called an artist more than once but that was "P###artist" Rich |
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Post by timmsyrj on Mar 3, 2016 7:32:08 GMT
Thank all of you so much for your replies, nice to hear from other collectors. I have been attempting a similar method to that described by Timmsyrj, and still am having trouble getting the folds to open. I am left to assume that my relaxing process is not working out. I have tried at least ten different relaxing methods and have left specimens in the relaxer for as long as a week and they are all still more stiff than any of the videos and pictures I have seen on here and youtube. Guess I will just have to experiment more. Again, thanks for the responses, living where I do it is nice to have an online outlet with people of similar interest. It could be your relaxing technique if they are not fully relaxed, gently blow the hindwings open and direct the blow gently into the scent folds, they should blow open if relaxed properly. I relax my specimens in a Tupperware box or similar, 8 inch square x 4 inch deep, each box has 4 sponges in the bottom ( I use the 3x2x1.5 inch washing up sponges with the green scouring pad attached, then I pour in some soft water from my R.O water filter ( it can be any water, I use this because it contains zero algaes and mould spores etc, and I always have a supply as its for topping up water evaporation on my marine fish tank), add to this a couple of drops of TCP and add 20 specimens. Close the lid firmly and this time of year I leave them for 24 hours on top of the double radiator in my kitchen, if the radiators aren't on I have an electric propagator for raising seedlings, the heat from either of these quickly raises the humidity within the box. Too many specimens and the humidity can't reach all of them. I leave them in the glassine papers unless it's the very thin stuff which when wet turns into tissue paper. 24 hours later they are usually well relaxed. Rich |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 21:03:27 GMT
I have been introduced to the world of relaxing by injection by Clive Pratt and there is no going back for me now, it's so quick and easy even the largest and most brittle specimens are ready in an hour or so, I won't use this method on the smaller British species of course but what an eye opener.
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Post by jonesy610 on Mar 3, 2016 22:34:42 GMT
What specifically is the injection method you several of you have spoken of... I have been injecting 1cc of warm/hot water from the distal end of the thorax of the specimen and then putting them in a hydrator on top of a seedling heat mat that heats the container to about eight degrees and my specimens are still stiff after 24hrs. Not sure what else to try, I cannot believe the specimens are still coming out stiff!
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