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Post by cabintom on May 7, 2015 13:58:59 GMT
I'm wondering if someone would be able to help me sort through the Neptis laeta group? I haven't been able to find descriptions of each of those species, so that's made things difficult... Anyways, these may all be the same variable species, or a number of different ones. If you look closely there are a number of differences between the specimens pictured. 1) The number & shape of dots in/around the FW cell. 2) Shape of the white FW band (and the indentation created by vein 4 3) Number of marginal lines, both FW and HW (and how developed they are) 4) Breaks in the marginal lines (especially evident on the underside) 5) Shape of the white HW band (especially the shape along the edge, curved or squared) 6) Underside markings at the base of the HW (Sorry if this is the 3rd place you've seen me post this... I haven't had much luck with ID help lately...) THANKS!  |
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Post by wollastoni on May 7, 2015 14:26:15 GMT
I have always found that Neptis is the hardest group to identify !
I have plenty of unidentified Neptis from SE Asia because they all look the same... and books don't really help.
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Post by africaone on May 9, 2015 6:46:52 GMT
it seems that many post are doubled with insectnet !
is it necessar as the members seems very similar ?
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Post by cabintom on May 9, 2015 12:03:04 GMT
is it necessar as the members seems very similar ? Well, to be honest, you were one of the people I was hoping would respond to my post. I'm never sure which forum people are checking more frequently so this time I posted in both. In the future I think I'll stick with posting here and avoid doubling the work. |
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Post by Adam Cotton on May 9, 2015 17:09:55 GMT
Interestingly though, the same threads on the two forums often diverge in totally different directions, just like isolated species!
Adam.
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Post by deliasfanatic on May 9, 2015 18:02:42 GMT
Tom - do you have the revised volume of d'Abrera? If not, I'll check for you, but if you've already done so, there's little point in my doing so; I'm not too familiar with Neptis species and would have to judge by the photos alone, not knowing the degree of variability that each species may have. I could also check "Butterflies of Zaire", which you don't have IIRC.
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Post by cabintom on May 9, 2015 20:56:43 GMT
I only have part 1 of d'Abrera's work on Afrotropical butterflies, so if you'd like to check for me that would be immensely appreciated!
As it stands, I believe the top specimen is N. serena. The next three may be N. kiriakoffi, and the last 3 N. laeta... but those are just educated guesses. It would be a lot easier if I could get my hands on the original descriptions.
As you said, "not knowing the degree of variability that each species may have" is one of my big problems too.
Thanks!
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Post by deliasfanatic on May 9, 2015 23:37:32 GMT
Tom - I've had a long look at d'Abrera, but I've come up with nothing definite. Lack of a key to differences, to knowledge of variation, and my own unfamiliarity with them is to be blamed! I didn't check the Zaire book, since one of d'Abrera's comments implied that several species had recently been raised from old synonymy.
I'm afraid these are extremely questionable at best:
1: alta
2-3: morosa
4?
5: serena
6-7: possibly kiriakoffi or laeta
A specialist or more knowledgeable person is definitely needed!
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Post by cabintom on May 10, 2015 1:15:28 GMT
I'm afraid these are extremely questionable at best: 1: alta 2-3: morosa 4? 5: serena 6-7: possibly kiriakoffi or laeta A specialist or more knowledgeable person is definitely needed!  I've cycled through all of those IDs in the past. I try my hand at IDing them every few months and each time I think I recognize a new characteristic or pattern and change all of my IDs. Thanks for making this effort. Would anyone know of a specialist in this group? |
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Post by africaone on May 10, 2015 8:51:36 GMT
I'm afraid these are extremely questionable at best: 1: alta 2-3: morosa 4? 5: serena 6-7: possibly kiriakoffi or laeta A specialist or more knowledgeable person is definitely needed! I've cycled through all of those IDs in the past. I try my hand at IDing them every few months and each time I think I recognize a new characteristic or pattern and change all of my IDs. Thanks for making this effort. Would anyone know of a specialist in this group? to be honnest I doubt that someone can identify it 100 % on pictures only.
D'abrera seems not the best source.
the only real specialist of the group recently died (Pierre-Baltus), some of actual African specialist can probaby identify them (as Libert, Larsen, etc..) but they have probably not the time to do that.
it is typical the kind of group in which you have to invest your time to obtain by yourself some answers and why not ... become the main specialist to identify them.
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Post by africaone on May 10, 2015 8:55:09 GMT
Interestingly though, the same threads on the two forums often diverge in totally different directions, just like isolated species! Adam. then may be the best way is to post on one site and if no anwser comes in a reasonable lap of time, to post it on another side.
otherwise, if someone accept to help, he has to go on the different sites to be update of what has been posted.
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Post by cabintom on May 10, 2015 11:12:34 GMT
the only real specialist of the group recently died (Pierre-Baltus), some of actual African specialist can probaby identify them (as Libert, Larsen, etc..) but they have probably not the time to do that. Did Pierre-Baltus put out a revision, or any specific work, on Neptis? |
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Post by africaone on May 10, 2015 14:16:20 GMT
make a Google search, i am sure you will get some answers !
as far as I know no global revision of the genus.
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I've cycled through all of those IDs in the past. I try my hand at IDing them every few months and each time I think I recognize a new characteristic or pattern and change all of my IDs. Thanks for making this effort.