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Post by trehopr1 on Mar 1, 2015 8:18:52 GMT
I just noticed a BLUE O.victoriae among the Top 100 Insect Auctions. I've heard of this before on another forum and read that it is artificially created MOST of the time using UV light. The posts I read also mentioned that the blue color "very rarely " occurs in real life --- but has. Naturally occurring BLUE forms are said to be known from Rubianus, Victoriae, Archeri, and Regis. They are commonly lumped under the form name of Niclasi. So if 80 or 90% of these creatures are produced by way of some "Houdini" act why do they command such stratospheric prices? Unique --- yes as well as eye catching. But, it seems to me such pieces lack the time and effort that for example is actually put by breeders into producing small numbers of O.allotei and akakea each year. I welcome any comments, insights, or corrections regarding this topic ..... |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 1, 2015 12:32:18 GMT
Easy money?
People will find any way to make some extra money, particularly if they can charge the same as say 10 or 100 of the normal item.
Adam.
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Post by Admin on Mar 1, 2015 12:45:35 GMT
The very white abdomen of this specimen indeed seems to be the result of a long UV bath...
Bidders beware...
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 1, 2015 14:09:21 GMT
You would have thought they would have learnt to cover the body while it was under UV light, although I guess we shouldn't be giving them ideas.
Adam.
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Post by hewi on Mar 2, 2015 11:15:57 GMT
another niclasi what do you mean ? natural or artificial ? (I will answer the question immediately, artificially) Manfred Attachments:
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Post by trehopr1 on Mar 2, 2015 19:25:25 GMT
I created this thread for the betterment of others. It is a means to inform others that "shenanigans " like these AND others are out there. And beware. Of coarse, experienced collectors know these things for what they are --- and won't be taken or mislead into a false belief. Like Adam said, easy money and SCANDALOUS PROFIT is what drives people to do underhanded things. I hope that those "newbies" or "green collectors " out there will have benefited from my post.
For what it's worth here is another one of those "shenanigans " pulled off on a dealer friend of mine many years ago. My friend purchased a little more than a dozen Goliath beetles which he was told was a "very rare form" seldom collected. He was just getting into the beetle market having dabbled largely in leps. So, he was "green". He purchased them for several thousand dollars and than went to Japan for one of their fairs to sell em' for profit. A couple of interested collectors contacted him the day before the show and wanted to see them in advance.
He then told me that one of these clever fellows pulled out a small vial of acetone and dropped a couple drops on the elytra of each. THE COLORS RAN ! He had been duped (had). The beetles had been very painstakingly " AIR-BRUSHED" to look the way they did. All he had was common fodder --- useless. Guess, I shouldn't be giving anyone ideas. However, if " shenanigans " like this are not exposed and discussed than someone else will pay a high price for their ignorance.
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Post by deliasfanatic on Mar 2, 2015 19:42:38 GMT
Unfortunately, there are all too many who want to make easy money via various methods of cheating. One of the more popular is to supply common species/subspecies with fake locality data, then pass them off as "rare subspecies" to the unwary. I see this on Ebay, and it's been going on for years before online selling came about. If you're in the market for a rare subspecies, the moral is to research it and learn what it actually looks like! Seitz is invaluable for this, as are original descriptions. Many of these are now out of copyright and available free online by a Google search...it pays to do your homework. Another favourite ruse is to sell uncommon "females" that are actually males with another species' abdomen glued on. I've seen this many, many times. Again, the sellers hope that buyers aren't knowledgeable. For example, a "female" Graphium or Eurytides may be offered; indeed it will have a female abdomen, but if the hindwings' anal flap is filled with scent hairs, it's fake  More difficult to detect are those examples in which females have little physical difference from males; usually there are subtle clues, such as slightly larger size, rounder wings, and sometimes lighter colour of a genuine female. One should always beware of "female" Papilio euterpinus, to make a specific example. Many years ago, when even the male was still quite scarce in collections, a friend of mine was offered a "female" and told me an amusing anecdote. This species is very difficult to determine as female by its wings alone, and he suspected that something wasn't right about the specimen offered. He put it into an acetone bath; within minutes, black paint began to peel from the abdomen, after which it dropped off entirely. A Battus abdomen had been painted black and glued on. According to another friend, this same trick is still being done today! |
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Post by trehopr1 on Mar 3, 2015 1:21:32 GMT
Well, I just checked up on this BLUE glamour king and it's now up to 2400.00 USD. With 2 days still left ! !
I guess somebody(s) NOT reading this thread.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 3, 2015 8:14:00 GMT
Sounds like at least 2 people have more money than sense, or just don't care whether the colour is natural or not.
Adam.
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Post by Paul K on Mar 3, 2015 8:42:52 GMT
Someone will buy it and live happy with rare precious butterfly until one day he will find out it is fake ! Then his hapiness will turn to ashes . It is the same as you own a very expensive and beautiful diamond until one day you want the appraisal just to find out it's not real.
Paul
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 9:38:29 GMT
I really do wonder about the kind of people who bid on things like this, the amount of money this doctored specimen is fetching is beyond belief for what it is, surely the uninformed must become the informed before even considering bidding on this. I look at the scams people get away with in the insect selling world, sometimes I chuckle to myself but more often than not feel angry that this great hobby gets polluted by people who's sole motivation is greed, that is why many years ago I resolved to only spend my hard earned on cast iron certainties, I can't think of a time, apart from getting chikae when I ordered hermeli that I have been duped, as Danny rightly says, do your homework, not only is it very educational and satisfying, it's also good for the bank balance.
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More difficult to detect are those examples in which females have little physical difference from males; usually there are subtle clues, such as slightly larger size, rounder wings, and sometimes lighter colour of a genuine female. One should always beware of "female" Papilio euterpinus, to make a specific example. Many years ago, when even the male was still quite scarce in collections, a friend of mine was offered a "female" and told me an amusing anecdote. This species is very difficult to determine as female by its wings alone, and he suspected that something wasn't right about the specimen offered. He put it into an acetone bath; within minutes, black paint began to peel from the abdomen, after which it dropped off entirely. A Battus abdomen had been painted black and glued on. According to another friend, this same trick is still being done today!
