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Post by dynastes on Feb 1, 2017 21:35:40 GMT
One seller offers two males of Рarnassius apollo (see photo). But I have doubts about their ID and data. On the top (according to seller) Parnassius apollo suaneaneticus supposedly from Georgia. P.a. suaneticus does come from that area, Caucasus, but this specimen doesn't look right to me and Adam Cotton. At the bottom (supposedly) P.a. sibiricus from Armenia (!!) - Of course sibiricus does not come from anywhere near Armenia. Do you can by their habitus to confirm or deny their subspecies status, because any data, as I think - fictitious. In any case, I`ll not buy it with fake data. But I wondering how true are subspecies. Attachments:
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Post by xavm (Xavier) on Feb 2, 2017 8:51:28 GMT
A part P. apollo filabricus and P. apollo atrides, I am afraid it is unlikely you can confirm the sspp names.
Cheers, Xavier
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Post by Adam Cotton on Feb 2, 2017 11:29:04 GMT
radusho,
Good to have your opinion, but according to the books Caucasus apollo are supposed to have large white centres to the red hw ocelli. When he asked me privately I recommended dynastes to post here precisely because I thought you would be able to give a much better reply in this case than I can. Due to the CITES issue I don't have specimens of P. apollo here so can only go on literature for this species.
Adam.
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Post by dynastes on Feb 2, 2017 12:20:12 GMT
Thank you.
As seller said, he ID ssp. by 2 books - Edwin Mohn, Thomas Frankenbach Butterflies of the World: Parnassius Apollo. The second book - I do not remember the name, in Japanese, published by the end of 1990, with a special cardboard cover for storage. I think that he rewrote the collection data from this books.
I have the first book, but I can`t ID ssp. with it.
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Post by dynastes on Feb 2, 2017 13:08:24 GMT
the bottom specimen looks like ssp. tkatshukovi from Armenia full data - Armenia, Ag-baba Amasia, h=2100 m |
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Post by dynastes on Feb 2, 2017 13:12:05 GMT
for Causasian ssp (?). full data - Georgia, Gushevi h=1200 m. But I can`t find geographic objects with this name. Maybe misprint ?
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Post by Adam Cotton on Feb 2, 2017 14:11:44 GMT
Great, I am sure that dynastes will be much happier now about the data on the specimens. Thank you very much for helping me understand more about these too.
Adam.
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Post by dynastes on Feb 2, 2017 14:18:46 GMT
There is another one - as P. apollo apollo from Stockholm (!!), Sweden. I againe have doubt about that it`s nominative ssp & I think it`s a fake geograph. data. I took this photo when I was visiting the seller. Attachments:
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Post by dynastes on Feb 2, 2017 14:19:29 GMT
verso Attachments:
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Post by dynastes on Feb 2, 2017 21:03:07 GMT
P.S. Need modern list of subspecies P. apollo from territory of Russia.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Feb 3, 2017 16:21:53 GMT
Thank you. As seller said, he ID ssp. by 2 books - Edwin Mohn, Thomas Frankenbach Butterflies of the World: Parnassius Apollo. The second book - I do not remember the name, in Japanese, published by the end of 1990, with a special cardboard cover for storage. I think that he rewrote the collection data from this books. I have the first book, but I can`t ID ssp. with it. If it is the same book, the Japanese work is absolutely superb. It is called Parnassius. The Parnassiology. The Parnassius Butterflies, A Study in Evolution. Seiji Sakai, Shigeru Inaoka, Toshiaki Aoki, Shuhei Yamaguchi & Yasuyuki Watanabe. The date of publication was 20 March 2002. I have a copy, which comes in a card box with a beautiful slide-out case. Adam. |
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Post by dynastes on Feb 3, 2017 23:54:49 GMT
Sweden mainland: apollo apollo (type locality stated in papers: "Stockholm"), Gotland Island: apollo linnei (type locality: Torburg) BUT the thing is, that Linne descibed this species based on the specimens collected during his trip to Gotland, so the true type locality of apollo apollo is Gotland: Torsburg. Ok, thank you. So you can confirm that apollo on photo seems to nominative ssp.? |
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Post by dynastes on Feb 3, 2017 23:57:47 GMT
Thank you. As seller said, he ID ssp. by 2 books - Edwin Mohn, Thomas Frankenbach Butterflies of the World: Parnassius Apollo. The second book - I do not remember the name, in Japanese, published by the end of 1990, with a special cardboard cover for storage. I think that he rewrote the collection data from this books. I have the first book, but I can`t ID ssp. with it. If it is the same book, the Japanese work is absolutely superb. It is called Parnassius. The Parnassiology. The Parnassius Butterflies, A Study in Evolution. Seiji Sakai, Shigeru Inaoka, Toshiaki Aoki, Shuhei Yamaguchi & Yasuyuki Watanabe. The date of publication was 20 March 2002. I have a copy, which comes in a card box with a beautiful slide-out case. Adam. Yes. it is. Book is gorgeous. Systematic part of course is a bit outdated. But the color plates is superior. |
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Post by dynastes on Feb 8, 2017 7:04:29 GMT
Ok, thank you. So you can confirm that apollo on photo seems to nominative ssp.? looks ok to me Thank you. it was important to hear your opinion |
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