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Post by arnaud75 on Dec 30, 2014 13:30:49 GMT
Hello, Someone can help me to understand how to identify Parnassius Apolo from France ? Are they identified from they proper location or do they have singular physical signs of recogization ?
Thank you in advance
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Several Parnassius for sale on Collector's Secret here.
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Post by mygos on Dec 30, 2014 14:04:29 GMT
Hello Arnaud, You should write Parnassius apollo, as only the genus name should have a capital letter, and apollo has 2 "l"  To answer you, I will let the Parnassius specialists from this forum ! A+, Michel |
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Post by arnaud75 on Dec 30, 2014 15:08:12 GMT
the exact ssp. you can identify only according to the locality -this is in general, not only for France (according to phenotype you can identify very very few ssp. ). Many thanks for your response, how can i do then to id species of specimens i have in a box without labels and forgotten locations of collect ? Thank you |
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Post by arnaud75 on Dec 30, 2014 15:10:15 GMT
Hello Arnaud, You should write Parnassius apollo, as only the genus name should have a capital letter, and apollo has 2 "l" To answer you, I will let the Parnassius specialists from this forum ! A+, Michel Merci Michel, C'est noté Parnassius Apollo |
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Post by xavm (Xavier) on Jan 7, 2015 10:50:25 GMT
Many thanks for your response, how can i do then to id species of specimens i have in a box without labels and forgotten locations of collect ? Thank you The exact locations are not necessary, but at least the nearest city, or mountain range would help. Otherwise it is just guessing and it is not much helpful.
Hello,
If you do not have any label nor any approx. location, you won't be able to identify the subspecies: e.g. Parnassius apollo vercorsius, Parnassius apollo venaissinus, Parnassius apollo provincialis can not be separated. On top of this, they do hybrize...
I published within the Les Lépidoptéristes de France (www.lepido-france.fr/) some papers which can be useful: www.lepido-france.com/18-les-parnassius-de-france.html
Best wishes, Xavier
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Post by arnaud75 on Jan 7, 2015 19:56:18 GMT
Dear Xavier, Many thanks for your response, it's give a pertinent answer to my interrogation and something i didn't know (the fact of that some French subspecies do hybridize). Thank you also for your link about "Parnassius de France" which i will order of course. I knew " Etude synoptique et répartition mondiale des espèces du genre Parnassius" which a very interesting publication. Thank you again Best regards Arnaud |
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Post by xavm (Xavier) on Jan 8, 2015 15:23:07 GMT
Dear Arnaud,
There are some very detailled books which deal on all described apollo subspecies, but unfortunately there are rather expensive and of course not detailled enough.
You will probably be interested to read that even Parnassius apollo and (phoebus) sacerdos also do hybridize and childs are fertile... genes were found in F3/F4... then are all mixed up.
Best wishes, Xavier |
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Post by arnaud75 on Jan 9, 2015 19:13:25 GMT
I agree with you, to begin with, i have just ordered the publication about French Parnassius and took the oppotunity to re initialize my membership to the French Lepidopterist, thank you again for you response and the encouragement to carry on being interested with entomology
Best regards
Arnaud
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homard
New Aurelian
Posts: 19 
Country: Russia
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Post by homard on Jan 16, 2015 17:59:16 GMT
Dear Arnaud, My firm belief is: if you cannot tell the ssp. of Parnassius (or whatever) w/o looking on it's locality label - this is not a true ssp.! So much of Apollo's sspp. should be synonimized! It is a voice of a man who spent a lot of his time for collecting of Parnassius and had a great collection of them in the end.  |
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Post by xavm (Xavier) on Jan 20, 2015 14:25:25 GMT
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Post by jmg on Jan 22, 2015 16:39:33 GMT
See also : www.lepido-france.fr/2011/12/photos-de-parnassidae/www.lepido-france.fr/2010/01/photos-de-parnassidae-ii/and, if you stay in Paris first week of February : terrific program for Parnassinae lovers : the next ALF meeting : • Le 4 février 2015 – Deux jours à Jiuzhaigu (Sichuan, Chine) en juillet 2014 (Jean Michel) (20 min). – La Kirghizie : le Moldo To, l’Alai et le Trans Alai (70 min). – 1. Étude génétique moléculaire du groupe de Parnassius charltonius (François Michel), – 2. Les 3 principales régions de P. charltonius : bilan de trois voyages (Jacques Ouvaroff & Emmanuel Zinszner) – 3. Expériences d’élevages de P. davydovi, dernière espèce découverte de Parnassius. dans le Moldo Too (2005) (Emmanuel Zinszner). – 4. Résultats des deux dernières expéditions avec A. Churkin (Jacques Ouvaroff). Découverte de cinq nouvelles sous-espèces de Parnassius, dont Parnassius loxias (publication sous presse). www.lepido-france.fr/2014/10/reunion/ |
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Post by jmg on Jan 22, 2015 16:45:17 GMT
Next ALF meeting (Parnassinae) : La prochaine réunion de l’ALF aura lieu le 4 février 2015, de 20 à 23 h. Muséum d’Histoire Naturelle 45, rue Buffon, 75005 – Paris Métro Jussieu ou Gare d’Austerlitz  |
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Post by wollastoni on Jan 22, 2015 16:57:27 GMT
I wish I could be there.
The ALF monthly meeting is one of the things that I missed the most since I am in Italy.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jan 22, 2015 21:12:16 GMT
– 4. Résultats des deux dernières expéditions avec A. Churkin (Jacques Ouvaroff). Découverte de cinq nouvelles sous-espèces de Parnassius, dont Parnassius loxias (publication sous presse). I assume that was a typo, and it should be S. Churkin. Sergei has joined this forum, although he hasn't posted yet. Adam. |
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Post by jmg on Jan 23, 2015 10:43:23 GMT
Right ! This is typo mistake. Sorry ! My friend Jacques Ouvaroff use to go to Kirgyszistan (Moldo Tau Range, mainly) each year (July) joining the Sergei Churkin team. End of September, when Sergei comes to Paris (Juvisy Fair), we organize a great dinner to talk entomology and news from the field ! Emmanuel Zinszner also goes each year to Tian Shan Range. The last time the two teams met by chance in a charltonius biotope in Alai or Transalai (I do not remember exactly where!).    |
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