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Post by wollastoni on Nov 2, 2016 16:51:37 GMT
Hello
Does anyone know how to bait or lure Troides species to make good pictures of them ? Are they attracted by red colors as Ornithoptera or Papilio ulysses ?
Thanks a lot Olivier
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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 2, 2016 17:19:36 GMT
Yes they are attracted to red, and of course males are attracted to bright yellow as well.
As for "bait", I don't know of anything special, although males will mud-puddle at urine particularly relatively early in the morning like many other Troidini.
Find suitable flowers in the forest and you can attract females as well as males, best about 4-5pm or during the middle of the day on wet (not heavy rain) or misty days.
Adam.
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Post by wollastoni on Nov 2, 2016 17:55:45 GMT
"although males will mud-puddle at urine particularly relatively early in the morning like many other Troidini." Thanks Adam
Do you put the urine in the morning, or in the previous evening ? Precisely what "early in the morning" means ?
I have seen many at flight but rarely close to me (except on Koh Tao where they were nectaring on some lantana flowers). All the other I have seen where high up in the canopy.
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Post by Paul K on Nov 2, 2016 22:48:46 GMT
. Troides aeacus aeacus feeding on red ixora flowers near Mukdahan in Thailand You can try red cloth or something to lure them down. I never find them personally on urine but perhaps I wasn't in right place. Urine you can pour the same day but it must be beside the stream or creek. For more longer effect you can put the plastic bag , cover with sand and pour urine so it will not drain to the ground. Also when it gets dry , pour some water to activate it again. Paul PS. For best result you must have a lot of litres of beer and produce many litres of urine
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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 3, 2016 14:37:34 GMT
Olivier asked:
"Do you put the urine in the morning, or in the previous evening ? Precisely what "early in the morning" means ?"
If you are up early enough you can put fresh urine down in time to attract them, but actually urine on stream bank mud from the previous day or two is sufficient attractant. I have noticed that butterflies are still attracted to the spot I put urine down several days later, as long as there hasn't been any heavy rain to wash it away.
With regard to time, I am not sure how early they actually start, but I sometimes see Troides at flowers behind my house even before it is properly light (6am), and in the hot season the only time to collect puddling Byasa laos is about 7am, before the sun reaches the stream banks. I often found Troides puddling at 8am or before 9am when I first arrive at a locality, and they are still, suggesting that they have been there for some time (when butterflies first arrive they will flap their wings as they puddle, but after a while they will sit still and suck).
Apparently Teinopalpus come to the ground at about 5am, when it is still dark and dawn is just starting, and once it is light they are back up in the canopy again. Presumably they come to suck dew from the ground before it dries up.
Adam.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 3, 2016 14:47:06 GMT
Paul said: "For best result you must have a lot of litres of beer and produce many litres of urine" Yes, I used to have a number of 6 litre clear plastic water bottles (the type they sell drinking water in), and I would save urine in them for days before a trip and take them all with me in a truck. I would store them in the room and take three 2 litre milk bottles with me each day to "splash it on all over", as Henry Cooper recommended (not on me of course), and refill those each evening for the next day's collecting. I would also refill the storage tanks before bed and first thing in the mornings with the fresh stuff. By the way, very old (even a year or more) urine works just as well as fresh "out of the tap" does, so I used to take all the left overs back with me and keep them for the next trip. That's the advantage of being able to drive from here to Laos. Luckily customs never asked to examine the contents of those 6 litre bottles at the border! Adam.
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Post by deliasfanatic on Nov 3, 2016 14:52:51 GMT
This reminds me of a good story I heard about a collector in Africa. He also used the urine baiting technique, and stored his supply in wine bottles in his car. One day, someone broke into the car and stole the wine bottles...
It would have been amusing to see the thief's face when he sampled the "wine".
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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 3, 2016 16:15:56 GMT
Indeed, and urine is the same colour as ... BEER ... ha, ha, ha.
Adam.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 3, 2016 16:46:28 GMT
This reminds me of a good story I heard about a collector in Africa. He also used the urine baiting technique, and stored his supply in wine bottles in his car. One day, someone broke into the car and stole the wine bottles... It would have been amusing to see the thief's face when he sampled the "wine". In England we would say he was "taking the p*ss" ... literally. PS. Wasn't it Jasper Carrott who had a "tastes just like p*ss" joke about a similar story?
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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 3, 2016 17:40:08 GMT
I sometimes see Troides at flowers behind my house even before it is properly light (6am) Adam. I should add that both T. helena and aeacus visit my garden in season. I have planted climbing Bauhinia vines at the base of a couple of trees behind the house, and they have covered both trees. During the rainy season they are a pale pink mass of flowers and many Troides can be observed flying around and either feeding on the flowers or patrolling. Males often chase other butterflies as well as look for females. On the front side of the house there is a row of shrubby trees with yellow or red flowers (called Som Poi in Thai, don't know the scientific name but they are African and have thorny branches) which bloom all year round, butterflies including Troides love those too. Here's a photo of female P. castor mahadeva on these flowers (taken by Kampol Sukhumalind) in western Thailand. Adam.
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Post by nomad on Nov 7, 2016 12:48:21 GMT
All good stuff and some very interesting posts but why was this thread placed in Legal? Do you need a permit to bait and photograph Troides in the country that you are visiting.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 7, 2016 14:46:18 GMT
I suspect that it is here in order to remind everyone that Troides are protected, all species under CITES and some under local laws. For instance of the various species in Thailand only T. aeacus is not protected under Thai law, but it cannot be exported without a CITES permit. It is forbidden to possess, kill etc etc all the other species found in Thailand, including specimens from other countries.
Adam.
PS. Of course baiting to attract and photographing them is not illegal.
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Post by wollastoni on Nov 7, 2016 15:57:51 GMT
but why was this thread placed in Legal? No reason at all. I must have made the error when I created the topic, I have placed it now to the right place in the "Lepidoptera" section Thanks
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Post by wollastoni on Nov 7, 2016 16:02:51 GMT
Thank you all for your comments. I will spend few days in Koh Phiphi next December and will try to make proper shots of them.
My only issue is that during my last trips there, I didn't find any river/streams in the forest, so no real good spots for urine baiting.
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Post by Paul K on Nov 7, 2016 18:10:31 GMT
Thank you all for your comments. I will spend few days in Koh Phiphi next December and will try to make proper shots of them. My only issue is that during my last trips there, I didn't find any river/streams in the forest, so no real good spots for urine baiting. Yes , that is the problem on small islands ( Koh Tao has no stream or river also ) and urine baiting has no effect . The only time when you can find some stream is after heavy rain but I believe rainy season is finished on Koh Phi Phi in December. Paul
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