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Post by mygos on Aug 12, 2016 14:41:56 GMT
If anyone can tell me which Pyrgus species this is, I would be more than pleased 11/08/2016, 37530 Souvigny de Touraine, France, in my garden ... Thanks, Michel
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Post by cabintom on Aug 13, 2016 5:13:22 GMT
Nice photo. Sorry, can't help you though.
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Post by mcheki on Aug 13, 2016 19:03:34 GMT
As another enthusiast in African butterflies I can only open the discussion with a suggestion. Possibly Pyrgus carlinae cirsii? Spialia are easier!! What do others think?
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Post by mygos on Aug 13, 2016 20:25:11 GMT
Thanks mcheki, but carlinae is only found in the Alps which is far from where I live A+, Michel
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Post by timmsyrj on Aug 14, 2016 8:30:18 GMT
Pyrgus cirsii I believe, later flying than others, late July onwards and post discal spots in s1 and s2 are joined but offset. Or possibly Pyrgus armoricanus not sure of range of this one though?
Check out butterfliesoffrance.com on the homepage there is a link to Pyrgus identification where you can compare all the species.
Rich
carlinae and cirsii are separate species with the former found at higher altitudes and the later from sea level to 1,500m
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Post by mygos on Aug 14, 2016 8:56:59 GMT
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Post by timmsyrj on Aug 14, 2016 9:02:45 GMT
Michel, I've just edited my reply whilst you wrote, is Pyrgus armoricanus listed for your area? I don't suppose you collected it, an underside shot would help.
Rich
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Post by timmsyrj on Aug 14, 2016 9:05:55 GMT
I've just checked the link, armoricanus is listed but there photo looks nothing like the photo on butterfliesoffrance.com.
Rich
August is to late for malvae, which is single brooded from mid April to mid May.
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Post by mygos on Aug 14, 2016 10:40:11 GMT
Michel, I've just edited my reply whilst you wrote, is Pyrgus amoricanus listed for your area? I don't suppose you collected it, an underside shot would help. Rich Yes Rich P. armoricanus is listed but I thought mine had more white spots ! I wished I had better pictures, including the underside A+, Michel
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Post by timmsyrj on Aug 15, 2016 7:36:52 GMT
Michel, I think the photo on the website you are using is a female armoricanus with reduced spotting, yours is a male which are more heavily spotted.
Rich
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Post by mygos on Aug 15, 2016 8:14:05 GMT
Thank you Rich for your great help on this ID A+, Michel
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Post by nomad on Aug 17, 2016 7:34:15 GMT
I would say this is a second brood Pyrgus malvae, the very white hindwing flashes are distinctive. Second brood malvae often occur in warmer regions and sometimes in the UK. The habitat of armoricanus is given as dry rocky gullies, slopes, dry bushy places.
Peter.
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Post by mygos on Aug 17, 2016 12:47:32 GMT
Thank you so much Peter for your identification and explanations A+, Michel
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Post by timmsyrj on Aug 19, 2016 10:14:49 GMT
I used these 2 links for identification www.butterfliesoffrance.com/Pyrgus%20upperside%20photos.htmwww.butterfliesoffrance.com/Pyrgus_uppersides.htmthe photo of armoricanus is almost identical to Michel's photo the ground colour is lighter than malvae and the white markings not as bright as malvae, also the cell spot is hourglass shaped with the postdiscal spot next to the cell reduced and suffused unlike malvae. The postdiscal spots in s1 and s2 are off set, not in malvae and the hindwing postdiscal spots are much larger and not as bright, also malvae has a sub marginal row of small bright white spots where as armoricanus has scattered pale scales. they are very confusing though and as Michel indicates they are both found in his department. The second link states malvae as single brooded where as the similar malvoides as double, some class malvoides as a sub species of malvae, others as a full species but both are much darker in ground colour. Rich
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Post by nomad on Aug 19, 2016 10:48:46 GMT
I am no Skipper expert and this may be armoricanus, but a grassy meadow does not seem right for that species. The real diagnostic features of Pyrgus are on the undersides. malvae is certainly double brooded in many areas. See www.eurobutterflies.com/sp/malvae.php I have sent Michel's image to a European butterfly expert to see what he thinks.
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