Nice aberration of Papilio bridgei from Bougainville

[albertofracasso]

Discovered only after spreading

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[nomad]

Yes, that is very nice. I expect Adam may know more.

[Adam Cotton]

Interesting, especially as the marginal spots are white as normal. If the yellow colour of the discal band was unnatural or occurred after death I would expect those to be yellow as well.

Adam.

[albertofracasso]

I am quite surprised for the comment. The two males arrived from Bougainville in the same parcel, were relaxed, spread and dried together.
alberto

[papalidar]

I have also received yellow males from Guadalcanal  and also fuscus and woodfordi ptolychus yellow among usual white in the same shipments.
Jacques

[exoticimports]

Having caught hundreds of bridgei, I can say that I've seen that before. It seems that it's more common in older specimens, and I've always thought it was due to aging, rather a discoloration if you will. But as Adam pointed out the marginal spots are still white, so I may have to rethink that. I'll go check my bridgei as well.

Chuck

[Adam Cotton]

Yes, I have also seen it in bridgei and woodfordi from Bougainville, particularly in ex IFTA bred specimens and I assumed that the yellow colour was unnatural; but I actually don't think that Alberto's specimen is discoloured, as I stated above. It would be interesting to ask a local breeder of these whether the yellow colour is also seen in live specimens (do you still have some contacts, Chuck?).

I wonder if Rich (timmsyrj) has also seen these?

Adam.

[exoticimports]

Adam, the yellow coloration does appear in live specimens- when I said "old" I meant specimens that were live and didn't look fresh. I still have a bunch of papered bridgei and fuscus, but it would be hard to open them without softening. As papalidar said, it also occurs in fuscus...so seeing all three species exhibit a common trait I simply assumed it was a result of exposure to "something" over time.

Here are some from Solomons- primarily fresher specimens. No yellow.

[Adam Cotton]

Chuck,

It is good to know that these yellow colours DO occur in live specimens. Indeed, quite a number of white or cream species do turn more yellow, or even orange, with age (eg. Papilio demoleus). However it seems that Alberto's specimen above is obviously not old and flight worn. I have also noticed similar colours in aegeus and gambrisius among other species in this group of Papilio species.

By the way, judging from his post above "I am quite surprised for the comment. ...", I think Alberto may have misunderstood my original reply, thinking that I was saying his specimen was artificially discoloured. Perhaps he was confused by my convoluted English, obvious in meaning to native speakers, but maybe less clear to Italians

Adam.

PS. Alberto's specimen is a much 'cleaner' yellow than similar ones I have seen, often they don't look as bright as this.

[timmsyrj]

Feb 12, 2016 17:41:52 GMT Adam Cotton said:

I wonder if Rich (timmsyrj) has also seen these?

Adam.

Apologies for the delay in my reply, been on 12hr nights and not checked in for a few days, I've not seen anything like this nice specimen, I agree with Adam, it doesn't look like a " manufactured abberation" as the marginal spots are still white, I have seen cream specimens, older specimens, but they are usually rather worn as they have been around a few days, they are large.
i do have similar yellowing ( more orange than yellow ) on a couple of horrabilis specimens, a photo was put on insectnet a couple of years ago, the opinion then was down to humidity / moisture, this would also yellow the marginal spots though.





Rich

[wollastoni]

And what about this Papilio dardanus currently for sale on Ebay ?

[Paul K]

In my opinion more yellowish then white colour is achieved by longer exposure to sunlight ( UV rays ). I have never done any experiment on this subject, but it could be that more exposed to sun rays pupae may have originally more yellow colour then those hidden in more shaded areas. Of course hide wings would not be exposed in this case directly and still should retain whiter colour unless the UV is penetrating thru.
Older specimens of Papilio polytes have also yellow spots instead of white but black back ground is only a bit of more brown due to exposure.
As we can see on first top Rich's specimen the orange colour on spots is more intense in the middle then on bordering line with black background which is much more yellow/white, that could also explain why marginal narrow spots are whiter then larger discal spots. First two yellow specimens have also slightly brownish colour.

Paul

[timmsyrj]

Feb 18, 2016 11:07:32 GMT wollastoni said:

And what about this Papilio dardanus currently for sale on Ebay ?

Yes I've seen that Olivier, quite a price! Wonder what my horrabilis would go for?

Rich

[deliasfanatic]

Feb 18, 2016 11:07:32 GMT wollastoni said:

And what about this Papilio dardanus currently for sale on Ebay ?

I had a look yesterday - I think it's discoloured, not natural. I've seen other specimens with that "dirty faded" look from age and/or storage conditions.

On the other hand, I have a P. aegeus "f. pandoxus" which I do believe is natural; it's vivid yellow, even though quite old, and doesn't have a dirty, faded, or uneven look to the yellow areas. It's also of good provenance; I can trace it back to its origin in the early 1960s.

[africaone]

Feb 18, 2016 14:49:52 GMT deliasfanatic said:

Feb 18, 2016 11:07:32 GMT wollastoni said:

And what about this Papilio dardanus currently for sale on Ebay ?

I had a look yesterday - I think it's discoloured, not natural. I've seen other specimens with that "dirty faded" look from age and/or storage conditions.

On the other hand, I have a P. aegeus "f. pandoxus" which I do believe is natural; it's vivid yellow, even though quite old, and doesn't have a dirty, faded, or uneven look to the yellow areas. It's also of good provenance; I can trace it back to its origin in the early 1960s.

there is a bid on it ! incredible !