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Post by africaone on Nov 2, 2015 7:26:24 GMT
Does exist a recent paper (or reliable one) on the relations between Delias, Mylothris ad Catasticta groups ? and / or on systematic of the world Pierini ?
The all 3 goups seems ecologically similar with foodplant as Loranthacae (but not all at least in Mylothris). Is this convergence confirmed by other characters ?
Being a Mylothris collector, this question is in my head for many years without finding time to investigage seriously the problem.
The adult of the 3 groups seems not so smiliar at first look.
Belenois seeming closer to Delias than Mylohris and Catasticta even more different. Few Mylothris are found in high altitude forest (sagala / ruandana group).
A first test with barcodes seems to indicate that the problem is quite large and the actual systematic (generic level) is not satisfaying for the African Pierini.
Thierry
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Post by wollastoni on Nov 2, 2015 8:32:44 GMT
Yes there is a paper from Braby about the origin of Delias genus, talking about that topic.
I will send it to you tonight.
These 3 groups have indeed common ancestors from Gondwana period.
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Post by wollastoni on Nov 2, 2015 8:43:13 GMT
And despite the long time separation, some species are still very close in patterns, and Catasticta and mountain Papuan Delias share the same behaviour. Catasticta teutila flavomaculata from Panama :  Delias gilliardi from Papua New Guinea :  picture from Chris Davenport |
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Post by africaone on Nov 2, 2015 9:30:39 GMT
close ? not so, the pattern are quite distinct (may be some convergnece in color pattern but that's all in these exemples)!
black, white and yellow are not so much characteristic inside the all Pierini. Note that internervural pattern (arc or feston shape) are completely inverted, not a small charaxter !
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Post by wollastoni on Nov 2, 2015 10:41:12 GMT
Well for species separated in the end of Gondwana, 160 million years ago, they seem still rather close to me !  |
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Post by wollastoni on Nov 2, 2015 21:56:29 GMT
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Post by africaone on Nov 9, 2015 7:51:19 GMT
Thanks Olivier.
I heard this WE from Bernard Turlin that it has been recently a conference on the subject by Michel François, a genetician. I am curious to read a report of this conference as it seems that Delias has two origin. As I wasn't there i can't comment it (it seems something like a group of Delias (the small altitude papuan and allied) is linked to Catasticta an another one (those from lower altitude and mainland and allied) to Mylothris.
I also found a more recent papers related to the subject
Delving into Delias Hübner (Lepidoptera: Pieridae): fine-scale biogeography, phylogenetics and systematics of the world’s largest butterfly genus by Chris J. Müller, Pavel F. Matos-Maravı and Luciano B. Beheregaray. Journal of Biogeography, 2012 : 1-13
Braby, M.F. & Pierce, N.E. (2007) Systematics, biogeography and diversification of the Indo-Australian genus Delias Hübner (Lepidoptera: Pieridae): phylogenetic evidence supports an ‘out-of-Australia’ origin. Systematic Entomology, 32, 2–25.
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Post by wollastoni on Nov 9, 2015 8:17:12 GMT
I would be interested to know more about those "two origins", seems strange to me.
I will ask more details to Michel and Bernard.
That Mylothris and Catasticta have different Delias-linked ancestors make sense on the contrary.
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Post by africaone on Nov 9, 2015 8:45:10 GMT
I would be interested to know more about those "two origins", seems strange to me. I will ask more details to Michel and Bernard. That Mylothris and Catasticta have different Delias-linked ancestors make sense on the contrary. this is why I would like to know the exact contain of the conference before going farer ... may be a misinterpretation ? |
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Post by wollastoni on Nov 9, 2015 11:27:30 GMT
About "Delving into Delias Hübner (Lepidoptera: Pieridae): fine-scale biogeography, phylogenetics and systematics of the world’s largest butterfly genus" by Chris J. Müller, Pavel F. Matos-Maravı and Luciano B. Beheregaray. Journal of Biogeography, 2012 : 1-13, you can download it for free here : www.molecularecology.flinders.edu.au/uploads/54834/ufiles/pdf/116_delias_JB.pdfI will reread it too. And FYI Thierry, there is a big DNA research that is actually done in Germany on the genus Delias. |
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Post by africaone on Nov 9, 2015 19:39:55 GMT
And FYI Thierry, there is a big DNA research that is actually done in Germany on the genus Delias. I hope they will use Mylothris of the different groups (there are at least two very differents ones, may be three) for comparaison who is in charge with this project ? |
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