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Post by wollastoni on Jul 24, 2015 10:06:46 GMT
Wow splendid, Marcin ! Keep them coming !
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Post by marcingajewski on Jul 24, 2015 18:25:25 GMT
Wow splendid, Marcin ! Keep them coming ! I'am cerious about opinion of Adam Cotton anout them . Thanks
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 24, 2015 19:08:55 GMT
From what I can see, and by checking my literature these do look like boisduvali, especially the female. Is it somewhat smaller than normal priamus females?
One apparently good character for the male is at the base of the hindwing underside. The black basal marking should be more extensive than in other subspecies of priamus. A photo of the underside of the male would certainly help to suggest its identity. The problem is, especially with the male, it is very difficult to be 100% certain that it is really boisduvali.
Adam.
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Post by marcingajewski on Jul 24, 2015 20:43:49 GMT
From what I can see, and by checking my literature these do look like boisduvali, especially the female. Is it somewhat smaller than normal priamus females? One apparently good character for the male is at the base of the hindwing underside. The black basal marking should be more extensive than in other subspecies of priamus. A photo of the underside of the male would certainly help to suggest its identity. The problem is, especially with the male, it is very difficult to be 100% certain that it is really boisduvali. Adam. Hello Adam , Thank You for Your opinion is realy helpful . Here is underside of male . Marcin Attachments:
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 24, 2015 21:36:48 GMT
Hmm ..., strangely the underside does not look like boisduvali at all, and actually the upperside of the male is too green, it should be more blue-green. I wasn't sure at first whether this was an effect of lighting or the photography, but the underside looks wrong. This male looks more like demophanes or a selected poseidon without yellow spot in space 7.
Is the female smaller than most priamus females? If it is normal size it could also be a selected poseidon, but it does look like a boisduvali female in markings and general colour.
Adam.
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Post by marcingajewski on Jul 24, 2015 21:47:48 GMT
Hmm ..., strangely the underside does not look like boisduvali at all, and actually the upperside of the male is too green, it should be more blue-green. I wasn't sure at first whether this was an effect of lighting or the photography, but the underside looks wrong. This male looks more like demophanes or a selected poseidon without yellow spot in space 7. Is the female smaller than most priamus females? If it is normal size it could also be a selected poseidon, but it does look like a boisduvali female in markings and general colour. Adam. Thank You Adam , maybe one day i will find one more in type but is not easy whith bouisduvali like You wrote . Female is lot smaller than poseidons i have . Marcin
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Post by deliasfanatic on Jul 24, 2015 22:37:47 GMT
I would be hesitant to doubt Richard Carver's data - and it looks like his genuine handwriting on both labels.
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Post by marcingajewski on Jul 25, 2015 8:21:39 GMT
I would be hesitant to doubt Richard Carver's data - and it looks like his genuine handwriting on both labels. that's why is very intresting spacemants for me . I did't see more than 10 pairs pictures on my eyes and I'm thinking hove stable is this ssp. I've se the Borch paper whith some variations of this ssp . one male looks very similar to mine . About bluish colour , he is bluish and yelovish after rehydtation before setting . Intresting . Marcin
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 25, 2015 16:38:48 GMT
I am glad to hear that Danny is able to confirm the handwriting on the labels appears to be that of Richard Carver. The female certainly looks like a normal boisduvali should, and its small size is also indicative that this should be a real boisduvali female.
Indeed it is possible that the male is a genuine boisduvali despite not conforming with the expected characters for this subspecies. I haven't seen many boisduvali, only those pictured in various books, but Haugum and Low do say that it is very difficult to separate boisduvali males from other subspecies definitively, other than that they usually have a combination of some characters peculiar to boisduvali, but not in all cases it seems. The extended black markings at the base of the hindwing underside are normally present in boisduvali males, but not in this specimen. Usually the upperside is a blue-green, and the underside has a pale blue hue, but it seems not this specimen.
I should also add that I don't collect birdwings myself, so all my information is from the copious literature on them, and is thus based on what was known in the past. Obviously boisduvali is one taxon that lacks extensive knowledge. I guess that it is even more difficult to obtain material from Woodlark Island now that IFTA is defunct.
Adam.
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Post by deliasfanatic on Jul 25, 2015 17:21:46 GMT
I've never heard of Woodlark material being available from IFTA; does anyone know with certainty? I had a lot of material from them in the '80s, but I don't have boisduvali; if it had been available at that time, I'd have obtained a pair or two. They did, rather surprisingly, have a small amount of material from Goodenough Island around 1992, and there was a trickle of specimens from the Trobriands up until about that time.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 25, 2015 19:06:06 GMT
In 1983 I got 2 males of Papilio phestus dunali from Don Thomas, a 77 year old (at the time) American collector who went there and caught them himself, shortly before he visited me in Bangkok. I took him to Khao Soi Dao, then a fantastic place for butterflies in Chanthaburi Province, near the Cambodian border. He could chase butterflies faster than I could and I was only 24 then. Those are the only specimens I have from Woodlark.
As for IFTA, when I bought butterflies from them it was already in their twilight, just before they closed, and they mostly only had mainland PNG and Bougainville material available.
Adam.
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Post by timmsyrj on Jul 25, 2015 19:19:52 GMT
I had a very old list of theirs and I'm certain boisduvali was on it, miokensis definitely was, I'll see if I can find it.
Rich
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Post by deliasfanatic on Jul 26, 2015 0:37:45 GMT
They listed a lot of things that they never had - various Delias, for example.
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papalidar
New Aurelian
Posts: 23
Country: France
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Post by papalidar on Jul 26, 2015 6:34:02 GMT
It seems that Harry Borch and Ramon Straatman was able to supply some o p boisduvali during the years 1970-1980. I was a customer of IFTA during 0 years (and I have visited Bulolo and Wau in 1996) I have also visited Mrs Borch in Cairns and I have obtain some damaged males. Yet, at Wau, I have obtain a fresh pair of o priamus from Normanby Isld, with a female similar to ssp boisduvali. From this place, I have also p ulysses and euchenor. On the attached picture 2 males boisduvali and at right the damaged pair of priamus from Normanby
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papalidar
New Aurelian
Posts: 23
Country: France
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Post by papalidar on Jul 26, 2015 6:38:10 GMT
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