troidescriton
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Hobbyist here! Love butterflies
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Country: United Kingdom
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Post by troidescriton on Jul 17, 2015 17:22:35 GMT
Hello people! So recently I read forums were people are talking about changing the colours of a butterfly using UV lights and what not, and then I see this Ornithopetra Croesus Lydius that might be a fake: ( Here) I am saying so because the strip on the thorax is green, when Croesus Birdwings have yellow stripes on the thorax and the underside of this butterfly is green and looks like that of a Primaus. IS this really a fake or just a misunderstanding on my behalf? And if so, let's take this as an opportunity to spread some more knowledge on this topic! Here's another listing from him where he claims that this specimen might be a Gynandromorph. He clearly has no idea what a gynandromorph is...( Here)
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Post by wollastoni on Jul 17, 2015 19:41:58 GMT
Why would people make fake croesus, they have nearly no value ?
Doesn't look like a fake to me. The second one looks like a freak
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troidescriton
New Aurelian
Hobbyist here! Love butterflies
Posts: 18
Country: United Kingdom
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Post by troidescriton on Jul 18, 2015 1:07:42 GMT
Why would people make fake croesus, they have nearly no value ? Doesn't look like a fake to me. The second one looks like a freak What do you mean by "Nearly no value"? They're usually way more expensive than the Primaus ones. :/ The second one looks like the wings were broken off and then glued to the thorax.
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Post by cabintom on Jul 18, 2015 4:49:47 GMT
This is meant in all kindness: You really should... actually, need to pay proper attention to the spelling of species names and their proper capitalization. Otherwise you'll be be continuing to cause many of us to twitch at the sight of your posts... honestly, please place value in this. For folks, such as myself, who have little interest in Ornithoptera and are trying to figure out your concerns, Googling the genus "Primaus" and finding a bunch of nonsense is quite unhelpful. (Fortunately, I've followed enough threads on these butterflies that I understand you are referring to Ornithoptera priamus... but with most other species of insect I would have no idea whatsoever of what you meant.) What I believe wollastoni means is that, for the vendor, faking a $50 specimen doesn't make any sense economically. Why would someone risk the success of their business for $50? In regards to the "gynandromorph" claim, it seems to be common practice on ebay to include "buzzwords" which attract traffic. I'm curious as to what gives you the impression the second specimen has had it's wings glued on? If you read in the description of the sale you'll see that the butterfly is shipped "unmounted and dried in paper" which, I think, would eliminate the possibility of the specimen being tampered with in the way you're suggesting. Tom
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Post by trehopr1 on Jul 18, 2015 5:26:52 GMT
And why would you even look at a piece of trash like that anyway ? That's why the seller is only asking fifteen bucks ! Save your money and buy a nice one with its wings all there.
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Post by Paul K on Jul 18, 2015 5:34:39 GMT
He is selling specimen in the photo , so it is spread and mounted. I wonder if he will fold it back for shipping ? Is that how it works?
Paul
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Post by wollastoni on Jul 18, 2015 6:31:57 GMT
Yes Paul. It is a common practice for big butterflies.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 8:40:11 GMT
If the seller is relaxing the specimen and sending it unmounted then if the wing is glued it will almost certainly come off after being softened. People relax mounted butterflies and send them in paper envelopes as it eliminates the chance of damage in transit, or it should if they are packed properly.
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troidescriton
New Aurelian
Hobbyist here! Love butterflies
Posts: 18
Country: United Kingdom
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Post by troidescriton on Jul 18, 2015 15:05:37 GMT
This is meant in all kindness: You really should... actually, need to pay proper attention to the spelling of species names and their proper capitalization. Otherwise you'll be be continuing to cause many of us to twitch at the sight of your posts... honestly, please place value in this. For folks, such as myself, who have little interest in Ornithoptera and are trying to figure out your concerns, Googling the genus "Primaus" and finding a bunch of nonsense is quite unhelpful. (Fortunately, I've followed enough threads on these butterflies that I understand you are referring to Ornithoptera priamus... but with most other species of insect I would have no idea whatsoever of what you meant.) What I believe wollastoni means is that, for the vendor, faking a $50 specimen doesn't make any sense economically. Why would someone risk the success of their business for $50? In regards to the "gynandromorph" claim, it seems to be common practice on ebay to include "buzzwords" which attract traffic. I'm curious as to what gives you the impression the second specimen has had it's wings glued on? If you read in the description of the sale you'll see that the butterfly is shipped "unmounted and dried in paper" which, I think, would eliminate the possibility of the specimen being tampered with in the way you're suggesting. Tom Oooh! I'm so sorry! I spell it as "Primaus" all this time cause I was looking at a few specimens on a website and they spelled their names as "primaus" so I stuck with that. LOL! So sorry for the inconvenience! The second specimen's wings are right on the top of the thorax, and I mean the upper wings, not the hindwings. I am talking bout the picture.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 18, 2015 15:30:37 GMT
"The second specimen's wings are right on the top of the thorax, and I mean the upper wings, not the hindwings. I am talking bout the picture."
That is because it was spread before it was properly relaxed and the forewings bent at the 'shoulders' rather than at the wing joint.
Adam.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 15:51:44 GMT
Ornithoptera are notorious for this, I wasted quite a few specimens as a young man by not relaxing them for long enough, you need to recognise the signs of a poorly relaxed specimen as opposed to a glued one.
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Post by terry2014 on Jul 18, 2015 16:21:19 GMT
Ornithoptera are notorious for this, I wasted quite a few specimens as a young man by not relaxing them for long enough, you need to recognise the signs of a poorly relaxed specimen as opposed to a glued one.
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troidescriton
New Aurelian
Hobbyist here! Love butterflies
Posts: 18
Country: United Kingdom
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Post by troidescriton on Jul 18, 2015 18:53:23 GMT
Ornithoptera are notorious for this, I wasted quite a few specimens as a young man by not relaxing them for long enough, you need to recognise the signs of a poorly relaxed specimen as opposed to a glued one. I had my first try at spreading Troides Criton (Male) yesterday. Was not properly relaxed and I almost broke off both wings. I should of just waited for the syringes to arrive. I am not going to screw up the Ornithoptera Priamus Arruana this way. lol
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Post by deliasfanatic on Jul 18, 2015 19:09:35 GMT
That would actually be O. p. arruana Remember that the genus (Troides or Ornithoptera, for example) has a capital letter; species and subspecies never do. I agree with the others that the specimen of O. c. lydius in question is improperly set, causing damaged "shoulders" at the wing bases.
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troidescriton
New Aurelian
Hobbyist here! Love butterflies
Posts: 18
Country: United Kingdom
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Post by troidescriton on Jul 18, 2015 19:55:25 GMT
That would actually be O. p. arruana Remember that the genus (Troides or Ornithoptera, for example) has a capital letter; species and subspecies never do. I agree with the others that the specimen of O. c. lydius in question is improperly set, causing damaged "shoulders" at the wing bases. Thanks! I think I am gonna stick with their common names from now on. LOL!
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