Papilio menatius ? cleotas ? other ? Brazil and Colombia

[wollastoni]

Hello

I have 2 Papilio to identify and I would like to know the last classification as I see different names on various websites.

I have 2 males like this one, one from Moro Grande, Brazil (pictured), and one from Missiones, Argentina (same patterns) :
P cleotas cleotas BRAZIL by opequin, sur Flickr
Is that one P. cleotas ? or menatius cleotas ?

And one female from Cali, Colombia, 1963 :
P cleotas phaeton COLOMBIE by opequin, sur Flickr
Is it the same species ? Looks different from the Brazilian cleotas females I have seen.

Thanks a lot

[deliasfanatic]

This is one of those categories where species/subspecies depends on which revision you look at. I consider them all as a single species, so the first one (S. Brazil, etc) would be P. menatius cleotas. The second specimen's previously used name, phaeton, is not valid; it would now be known as P. menatius syndemis. Have you checked the abdomen for claspers? It looks like a male to me, judging from the wings, and also because males are common in this ssp, whereas one almost never sees a female.

[wollastoni]

Yes, P. m. cleotas.

[deliasfanatic]

Oops, sorry - I accidentally edited your post instead of mine! Yes, as I said above, it's P. m. cleotas from the S. Brazil / N. Argentina area.

[neominois]

I'm sure the other guys are more helpful, but they both look like menatius to me, but this species has confused me a lot. It is listed under Pterourus on the Swallowtails.net site, but that species is not listed at all in the Butterflies of America website...