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Post by wollastoni on Oct 3, 2015 14:29:33 GMT
A friend of mine has this historic Delias bagoe in his collection. It has been caught in 1912 in the Bismarck Archipelago, Papua New Guinea, and was in the collection of C.S. Larsen.
Does anyone know this Danish collector and could tell us more about him ? Anyone can tell us what "Modt." on this label ? The equivalent of "leg." ?
Very few people could access such rarities in those times !
Thanks for your help Olivier
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Post by deliasfanatic on Oct 3, 2015 18:13:20 GMT
I've wondered about CS Larsen too. I have a few specimens with the same type of label, which came from the Aronheim collection, although they are Neotropical specimens. It appears that Mr Larsen had a very good collection!
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Post by deliasfanatic on Oct 4, 2015 5:03:30 GMT
Thanks for your most interesting information - I'd hoped that someone may know more! Tomorrow I'll pull the two specimens that I have with Larsen labels and will illustrate them here. Perhaps, between them, we may determine more of the story.
It seems that Otto Bang-Haas continued a link with Delias of the Bismarck Islands, for he is the author of D. mayrhoferi, described from New Britain in 1939. That description was "lost" for many years, the species later being rediscovered and redescribed as D. shunichii by Morita in 1996. The latter name was considered valid until the rediscovery of the original specimens in 2004; a paper sorting this out and reestablishing the proper name was published in Germany in 2006. I've briefly reviewed it a moment ago, and I don't see any indication of capture date(s) for the type specimens. The paper includes much other interesting historical information, and is well worth a look. Bang-Haas also published the little-known taxon Papilio moerneri mayrhoferi in the same year, likewise from New Britain.
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 4, 2015 7:05:35 GMT
I love this forum ! 
Thank you so much Jan!
I also think the link with Otto Bang-Haas would be the good one, as he had good contacts with German collectors in the Bismarcks (Mayrhofer has explained by Danny).
About "Ng Mecklenburg", I read it as the locality capture :
- Ng would mean "New Guinea", "Mecklenburg" may be a locality there, Bismarck islands were a German colony in the past.
- No idea what "Kapsü" could mean. An abbreviation with "Sü" meaning "South"?
- I also read "A. Krück Hambourg" but no idea what it means but if "Modt." is the time of purchase, this "A. Krück Hambourg" should be the name of the shop/fair or of the seller.
We need a German help on this topic ! |
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 4, 2015 7:49:15 GMT
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Post by deliasfanatic on Oct 4, 2015 14:46:13 GMT
Also, New Britain = Neu-Pommern.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Oct 4, 2015 19:13:25 GMT
Also, New Britain = Neu-Pommern. Also spelt New Pomerania. Adam. |
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Post by deliasfanatic on Oct 5, 2015 3:45:11 GMT
As promised, here are my two ex-Larsen specimens: 1) Polygrapha suprema: from Passa Quatro, Minas Gerais, Brazil; I had assumed that capture date was 20 January 1926, but this is apparently the date of acquisition by Larsen, per Jan's information. Labels are also shown from W P Comstock from 1939; presumably this is one of the specimens used as reference when Comstock wrote "The Genus Anaea".  Polygrapha suprema M 1433 by D B, on Flickr 2) Memphis lorna: from San Andreas, Ecuador; acquisition date 10 December 1924. There is another determination label by Comstock, but only similar to the previous specimen's small label and not the larger version. I can't decipher the other information on the Larsen labels.  memphis lorna by D B, on Flickr |
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Post by timmsyrj on Oct 5, 2015 10:05:44 GMT
Excellent detective work, what this hobby is all about at the end of the day, not only the specimens but the research, historical specimens are merely specimens if they have no history, if the story is lost over time the specimens, however great or rare, loose a bit in my eyes.
Rich
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Post by wollastoni on Sept 29, 2019 16:26:12 GMT
Other gems from the CS Larsen collection that I have just acquired. A pair of Delias itamputi. Very few are known in collection. These specimens must have been caught by AS Meek himself.  I can decipher "Berlin Steglitz" which is a neighbourhood of Berlin. I guess "Schück & Echten" or something like that may be an entomological shop. Any idea from one of our members ? With so many rarities in this topic only, we can only imagine that the CS Larsen collection must have been a very impressive collections, full of rarities. |
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Post by nomad on Oct 1, 2019 10:26:06 GMT
Jansons of London got all of Meek's specimens that Rothschild did not need, including many new and rare Delias. There are letters from the Natural History firm Staudinger and Bang Haas to Janson, in their archives at the BMNH dated between 1897 and 1929. They bought many specimens from Janson including those collected by Meek. They are no letters to Janson from Schück & Echten, so they may have been smaller dealers or collectors who bought material from Bang Haas, who continued the Natural History business after Staudinger's death. Those letters to Janson after 1925, would be from Otto Bang-Haas who took over his fathers business. I think it is probable (possible) that your Delias itamputi collected by Meek were bought from Janson by Bang-Haas, and then sold on. Unfortunately some collectors/dealers changed older labels, and added their own.
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Post by bobw on Oct 1, 2019 11:30:06 GMT
When I was recurating some of the Castniidae in the Natural History Museum in London a couple of weeks ago I noticed that several of the Duboisvalia types have the same Larsen labels as your specimens. His specimens were obviously well shared around.
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 2, 2019 10:01:38 GMT
My German friend Jens Jakusch has helped me decipher the itamputi label and found new interesting information ! What I read as "Schück & Echten" was in fact " Dr. Lück & Gehlen".And Dr. R. Lück and B. Gehlen had an insect shop in Schlossstrasse 31 in Berlin Steglitz and had some deals with Dr Staudinger and Bang-Haas. Then Jens also found this newspaper from "Entomologische Nachrichten" where Lück and Gehlen were advertising a new arrival from "Holländisch Neuguinea" (= Dutch New Guinea). Guess in what year it was published ? 1911 !!! So maybe CS Larsen had read that newspaper before going to their shop to buy the itamputi ! The ad is in the "vom Markte" paragraph below :  CS Larsen will soon have no secret anymore for us ! |
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Post by nomad on Oct 2, 2019 18:48:51 GMT
Now you have the correct name of the German dealer, I can tell you that Dr. Lücke & Gehlen had correspondence with Janson between 1910-1927,almost certainly to buy specimens from him. So it looks as Meek's Delias itamputi with other specimens would have been bought directly from Janson by Dr. Lücke & Gehlen. If you were able to read Dr. Lücke & Gehlen letters in the BMNH (I guess they were able to write to Janson in English) you might even come across a payment for Meek specimens, that might include your Delias itamputi.
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 3, 2019 13:54:06 GMT
Very interesting Peter, that would be fun indeed to find this letter !
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