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Post by Adam Cotton on Jan 5, 2016 17:31:32 GMT
Same conclusion re: West African P. maesseni and the troublesome pair P. fernandus/filaprae. White vs cream bands are not conclusive by any means! I should mention that the name Papilio maesseni Berger, 1975, although often used, is actually a junior synonym of Papilio nobicea Suffert, 1904, which is the valid name for that taxon. Adam.
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Post by deliasfanatic on Jan 5, 2016 18:10:46 GMT
Same conclusion re: West African P. maesseni and the troublesome pair P. fernandus/filaprae. White vs cream bands are not conclusive by any means! I should mention that the name Papilio maesseni Berger, 1975, although often used, is actually a junior synonym of Papilio nobicea Suffert, 1904, which is the valid name for that taxon. Adam. Aha! Thanks for that. I knew about nobicea, but somehow I'd thought of it as the synonym.
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Post by cabintom on Jan 5, 2016 19:17:51 GMT
" this is a box of mechowi whitnalli ", hell, I wouldn't even know it was mechowi never mind sub species, these are as bad as the "bromius" group. The "bromius" group is another one I feel like I now have a decent handle on... well at least the species that occur in the area here... a large part of the problem I've had with identification of those species (I mean, apart from how similar they are) has been caused by the confusion in the nomenclature. If I've followed things correctly, it seems that the evolution of the nomenclature, for 1 species in particular, has been as follows Papilio bromius Doubleday, 1845
| Papilio bromius chrapkowskoides Storace, [1952] | Papilio nurettinii Kocak, 1983
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| Papilio chrapkowskoides nurettini Larsen, 2005
| Papilio chrapkowskoides Storace, 1952. Larsen, 2005
| PAPILIO CHRAPKOWSKOIDES NURETTINI Koçak, 1983
| PAPILIO CHRAPKOWSKOIDES Storace, [1952]
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You also have the incredibly similar, both in appearance and name, Papilio chrapkowskii Suffert, 1904, which some authors have treated as a ssp. of Papilio bromius (ie. Storace and also Carcasson.). Then, and this must also add further to the confusion, in d'Abrera's Butterflies of the Afrotropical Region 1997, I noted that he continues to employ " bromius" and suggests that Papilio bromius chrapkowskoides might be a natural hybrid of Papilio chrapkowskii and Papilio bromius (the nominate subspecies). So, if we translate that into the current nomenclature, he's suggesting that P. chrapkowskoides is a hybrid of its own subspecies P. c. nurettini and P. chrapkowskii. At any rate, (and ignoring the names) I don't see how this could be the case, since, without looking very hard, I've collected 4 specimens of what I believe to be the nominate P. chrapkowskoides within the span of a month in 2014. To conclude, one of my goals for the coming years of collecting is to build some nice series of the species in this group... hopefully, that'll help settle a few things. Here's a comparison of the 4 species, which have all been caught in the same location: (Clockwise starting from the top left, I believe these to be P. chrapkowskii, P. nireus nireus, P. sosia pulchra, and P. chrapkowskoides chrapkowskoides, with the two species on the right being certain identifications.)
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Post by deliasfanatic on Jan 5, 2016 19:37:06 GMT
A technique that's always accurate for male nireus vs sosia: examine the claspers from the side. In nireus, they'll taper to a point; in sosia, they're rounded.
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Post by cabintom on Jan 5, 2016 19:56:52 GMT
Out of the 4 species that I've collected from the group, P. nireus is the only one with obviously pointed claspers, which removes all doubt from identifications (though, here, the width of the green bands is a clear indication as well).
P. sosia is easily distinguished from the remaining by the lack of the post-discal white spots/broken band on the underside of the FWs. Though it's lacking from my photo, often, on that same wing surface, P. sosia has marginal white spots (as seen in P. nireus).
...
I should mention that, outside of P. nireus, when it comes to females I'm currently just guessing.
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Post by deliasfanatic on Jan 5, 2016 20:01:39 GMT
Out of the 4 species that I've collected from the group, P. nireus is the only one with obviously pointed claspers, which removes all doubt from identifications (though, here, the width of the green bands is a clear indication as well). P. sosia is easily distinguished from the remaining by the lack of the post-discal white spots/broken band on the underside of the FWs. Though it's lacking from my photo, often, on that same wing surface, P. sosia has marginal white spots (as seen in P. nireus). ... I should mention that, outside of P. nireus, when it comes to females I'm currently just guessing. I don't know whether the lack of post-discal spots on sosia FW verso is consistent across subspecies - a good question that I need to check. Added to my list for specimen checking when I get to mechowi et al (hopefully later tonight). Female sosia is troublesome!
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Post by cabintom on Jan 6, 2016 4:44:51 GMT
I don't know whether the lack of post-discal spots on sosia FW verso is consistent across subspecies - a good question that I need to check. My source of this information is from: www.metamorphosis.org.za/?p=articles&s=List&pt=166 (You may need to sign up -its free- to download any of these documents) "In the male of P. chrapkowskoides there are broad white postdiscal spots on the forewing underside; in P. sosia there are small submarginal white spots (as in chrapkowskoides) but there are no discal spots; in P. nireus the forewing underside is usually without spotting (Larsen, 2005a). Females are more difficult to tell apart (Larsen, 2005a)."
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Post by africaone on Jan 6, 2016 7:41:06 GMT
the problem is more general for African papilionidae. the lack of of specialist to study them correctly. every "specialist" have a part of the necessar information but none compiled it and completed it with a serious study.
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Post by cabintom on Jan 16, 2016 7:39:22 GMT
Lubowa, Uganda : June/July 2015Well, my last batch of leps from Uganda are now coming off the setting boards, so here are a few more photos! Charaxes candiope (male) Charaxes tiridates tiridatinus (male X 2) Charaxes brutus angustus (female - This particularly hefty specimen got me wondering what species of butterfly might be the heaviest?) Charaxes etesipe etesipe (male - This is among my favourite species collected thus far.) Charaxes pollux pollux (I must have collected these near the end of this generations flight period... this one is less tattered than many were.)
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Post by cabintom on Jan 16, 2016 7:50:22 GMT
Lubowa, Uganda : June/July 2015And some more Belenois creona severina. (Am I being overly contentious by saying that I think these are just as pretty if not prettier than many -not all - of the Delias being posted on this site?) (female - top, male - bottom)
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Post by wollastoni on Jan 16, 2016 9:33:55 GMT
"And some more Belenois creona severina. (Am I being overly contentious by saying that I think these are just as pretty if not prettier than many -not all - of the Delias being posted on this site?)"
Well, say it again, and you will be banned from the ICF !
Now frankly, they are very nice indeed. My favorite Delias cousins in Africa are Mylothris though.
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Post by cabintom on Jan 16, 2016 11:17:12 GMT
Lubowa, Uganda : June/July 2015Now that my electricity is back I can finally submit these posts. Sarangesa lucidella (First time capture for me.) Acleros mackenii olaus (female) Oboronia punctatusPilodeudorix caerulea (female) Acraea zetes zetes (female)
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Post by cabintom on Jan 16, 2016 11:22:56 GMT
Lubowa, Uganda : June/July 2015... and lastly, a couple of moths: Heraclia monslunensis(?) (Caught at the top of the hill.) Unidentified (I somehow haven't found the ID for this one... anyways, this is proof that it pays to get to know the staff at inns/hotels were you are staying... sometimes they'll come into work with something they found back at home!)
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Post by Paul K on Jan 16, 2016 11:45:45 GMT
Daphnis nerii ! ( your Sphinx moth ) My good friends from Bangkok. They have family all over the world except Americas.
Paul
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Post by mygos on Jan 16, 2016 13:13:44 GMT
Yes Tom I confirm Daphnis nerii, beautiful sphinx A+, Michel
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