Common policy for collecting permits across the EU.

[satyrinae]

Hi people,

I would like to bounce off this idea with you to see if it makes sense or not.

As you are aware we are frequently reading the unfortunate news that scientists end up in some legal battle for collecting specimens without a collecting permit.  These issues happen across the world and there isn't much one can do outside the EU other than to acquire a permit before collecting but I think that for the European Union countries we (the scientists) can have a common policy across the EU which regulates the collecting and the acquiring of permits.  For example in Turkey (which is still outside the EU but day dream to join one day) it is impossible to get a permit even if you apply unless you bribe someone especially if you are not a Turk.  As most of you are aware, obtaining a collecting permit can be very difficult at times, even within the EU so having a harmonised policy would help scientists and the environment alike.  What I have in mind is some sort of framework which regulates the acquisition of permits, the collecting procedures, and the usage of the collecting specimens.

For example:

1. each country must have an official body/organisation which issues such permits and the list of these authorities has to be easily available online to researchers

2. individuals can apply for a permit through a research society (to eliminate the granting of permits to insect dealers/poachers).  If we have an entomological society in Malta, I can easily assume that there are similar societies in the rest of the EU.  But in the absence of such societies, an individual has to apply through the local authority responsible for the issue of permits.

3. part of the collecting specimens must end up in museums of choice of the authorities issuing the permits.

4. a complete list of collected specimens including dates, coordinates, etc must be sent within a specified period to the local authorities in order to be used by local scientists as required.

5. research can be granted anywhere within the country including National Parks

6. set a bag limit on the number of specimens that can be collected and possibly the species as well.  For example a maximum of 6 Maniola jurtina specimens can be collected from any given site but not more than 20 specimens of Maniola jurtina throughout the period in which collecting is permitted.

7. people found in breach of the permits will not be issued with further permits for the first few years (rather than end up in jail) for the first offence, and pay hefty fines afterwards.

There is a lot which can be added (such as dead vs live specimens permits) but I would like to get your feedback first.

This is just an idea which might sound wild but considering that the EU Commissioner for the Environment, Maritime Affairs and Fisheries is Maltese and in Malta everyone knows everyone, he is not so out of reach and can bounce off this idea with him too if you think that this makes sense.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Jonathan

www.satyrinae.yolasite.com/

[wollastoni]

Jonathan,

Interesting but let's not forget that some important EU countries (France, Italy...) are still collecting-free, you need no permit there.
Brieffing the EU Commission on this topic might end up in a total EU ban or a very difficult bureaucratic system to get permits.
Let's not forget that kids will never apply for permits.

This said, I think that EU countries with permits should simplify the procedures to get them. Spain is a great example of modernity on this.

This blog is useful to understand national permit procedures.

[Paul K]

I agree with Olivier.
The collecting outside national parks in all countries should be permit free.
Any permit system will end up in bureaucratic chaos. It will never be an easy task to get one.

Paul

[satyrinae]

I agree with your points re the collecting outside the National Parks. I missed those points. But what about a common policy to collect inside National Parks?

[nomad]

I have recently read that you may not collect in National Parks in either France or Italy!!

[nomad]

I have found this really useful website and most here will know of its exsistence and some here have contributed to it. However, as the information regards the U.K, it is a little misleading. It seems to imply that to collect in National Parks and Nature reserves you just apply for a permit and that's it. See here www.theskepticalmoth.com/about/

Unless you are a Scientist studing the smaller insect groups, the ordinary collector will never get a permit to collect in National Parks or Nature reserves. The same applies to all Foresty commission land and SSSI = Sites of Scentific Special interest, the latter covers most places where anything rare occurs outside of NR and NP. Also in the U.K collecting is forbidden on all National Trust Land. On private land permission is needed to collect and good luck in getting that. So there is no where left to collect. They say the truth often hurts and it does ( and so does one of my knees which has finally given up the ghost,after years of useful use). The truth is, like it or not, it is now regarded as socially unacceptable to swing a net in the U.K, especially as regards butterflies due to their diminishing numbers. No one seems to mention the collecting of Coleoptera or the smaller insects. It is a brave collector who ventures forth in to the British countryside today swinging a net .

Yes France and Italy are collector friendly ( outside of those National Parks where permits are needed but I am afraid Britain is not.

[Paul K]

Sept 16, 2015 17:32:33 GMT nomad said:

I have found this really useful website and most here will know of its exsistence and some here have contributed to it. However, as the information regards the U.K, it is a little misleading. It seems to imply that to collect in National Parks and Nature reserves you just apply for a permit and that's it. See here www.theskepticalmoth.com/about/

Unless you are a Scientist studing the smaller insect groups, the ordinary collector will never get a permit to collect in National Parks or Nature reserves. The same applies to all Foresty commission land and SSSI = Sites of Scentific Special interest, the latter covers most places where anything rare occurs outside of NR and NP. Also in the U.K collecting is forbidden on all National Trust Land. On private land permission is needed to collect and good luck in getting that. So there is no where left to collect. They say the truth often hurts and it does ( and so does one of my knees which has finally given up the ghost,after years of useful use). The truth is, like it or not, it is now regarded as socially unacceptable to swing a net in the U.K, especially as regards butterflies due to their diminishing numbers. No one seems to mention the collecting of Coleoptera or the smaller insects. It is a brave collector who ventures forth in to the British countryside today swinging a net .

Yes France and Italy are collector friendly ( outside of those National Parks where permits are needed but I am afraid Britain is not.

No wonder why Adam moved to Thailand 

[nomad]

It is a pity, but I stuck here in the U.K, everyone wants to get in and usually succeed, but my job, house and wife keep me here for the moment. There is no Great in Britain anymore.

[Paul K]

Peter
At least you can travel to your neighbour and collect there if you really want to . I wonder how people react in France or Italy when seeing collectors with the net in their hands.
In Canada it is a mixed reaction for now .

Paul