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Post by sensedigger on Aug 23, 2015 11:37:12 GMT
And two males from different localities (the lower one is from the above-said place, whereas the upper one is from Tajikistan, Mazorsky Mt. range, 3550 m)
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Post by nomad on Nov 1, 2016 11:22:54 GMT
This early specimen of Parnassius charltonius is from Trans-Alai Mountains, the northern most range of the Pamir Mountains. The label also has E. Ferghana. This seems to be a valley-mountains in the Trans-Alai. Captured July 1906. Perhaps that region was named after a Ferghana! I expect there were not many collectors roaming this region during 1906, any clue who was there during that period. OUNHM Coll. Is this P. charltonius romanovi Grum-Grshimailo 1885.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Nov 1, 2016 13:29:42 GMT
Fergana [Ferghana] is in Uzbekistan near the border with Kirghizstan, so the label will mean "Transalai Mts. east of Fergana" which would be inside Kirghizstan. Indeed it should be ssp. romanovi.
Adam.
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Post by nomad on Nov 17, 2016 16:35:43 GMT
I expect there were not many collectors roaming this region during 1906, any clue who was there during that period. I do expect that before modern day parties of Parnassius hunters, this species, Parnassius charltonius like many other butterflies was an even greater prize. The specimen shown here Ex Brodie collection does not as has been mentioned have a collectors name but as I suggested that there could not have been many collectors roaming the Pamirs during 1906. Not much is known about Brodie, but he seems to have amassed a collection of 30,000 butterflies with many rarities. It was not easy for outsiders and especially not the British to visit the Pamirs during 1906 and I expect there are a few Parnassius specialists who would know who was collecting there at that time. However, I have one clue. Charles Howard-Bury war hero and leader of the first British Mount Everest Expedition 1921 had a wanderlust during 1906. This is from a recent book " in 1906 he traveled south from St Petersburg to the Pamirs and Russian Turkistan, again in disguise, his skin stained brown with walnut juice. A. brilliant writer, a fine photographer, and a keen and accomplished naturalist, he became fluent in no fewer than twenty-seven Asian and European languages". Perhaps it was he who caught the Brodie Parnassius charltonius specimen.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 19:52:00 GMT
"his skin stained brown with walnut juice...he became fluent in no fewer than twenty-seven Asian and European languages" Am I the only one who finds this outlandish, that's what I call devotion
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Post by nomad on Nov 17, 2016 20:26:07 GMT
Howard-Bury did the same during a visit to Tibet during 1905. I guess he did it more for his own personal Safety. The British were not very popular during those parts of Russia and Tibet during that period. He was one of those people that just had to explore.
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Post by nomad on Nov 17, 2016 20:58:47 GMT
The Russian entomologist, Grigory Grumm-Grzhimaylo who discovered subspecies Parnassius charltonius romanovi in the Transalai did sell part of his collection to the English collector Henry John Elwes. However, I have doubts Grumm-Grzhimaylo was in those mountains during 1906 when the Brodie specimen was taken.
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Post by bobw on Nov 18, 2016 8:44:17 GMT
The Russian entomologist, Grigory Grumm-Grzhimaylo who discovered subspecies Parnassius charltonius romanovi in the Transalai did sell part of his collection to the English collector Henry John Elwes. However, I have doubts Grumm-Grzhimaylo was in those mountains during 1906 when the Brodie specimen was taken. Grum-Grshimailo (that's the way he spelt his family name himself to put paid to all the different versions) made his four great Pamir trips in the mid 1880s, this is the only time he could have been in the Transalai. His last great expedition was to China in 1889-1890. Much of the time after that he stayed in St Petersburg writing about his travels and describing new taxa so he certainly would not have collected this specimen. Anyway. it looks nothing like a Gr Gr label and I have handled hundreds of his specimens so I'm used to them. Elwes stopped in St Petersburg on the way back from his Altai expedition in 1898 and had some of Gr Gr's types. he also exchanged specimens with him and finally bought the remains of his collection years later. This is why BMNH has so many Gr Gr types ex. Elwes. Grum-Grshimailo is by far the most important figure in the discovery of Palaerctic butterflies (particularly Parnassius and Colias) and was a most intrepid explorer. The are two appendices about his travels and collection in our Colias book. Bob
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Post by nomad on Nov 18, 2016 12:42:00 GMT
Thank you Bob for your interesting notes on Grum-Grshimailo. It is not really known who collected the Brodie specimen but certainly not as you say Grum-Grshimailo. At first is is difficult to imagine that Howard-Bury was the collector of this specimen when he was roaming around the Pamirs in disguise. I have never seen a reference to him as a butterfly collector, although he certainly collected many botanical specimens during his travels, so he might have also used an insect net. A strange man, he once rescued a bear cub in a tiny cage in a Russian village, nurtured it on his horse, bought it back to his large estates in Ireland (he was very wealthy) and according to contemporary accounts he used to like to wrestle the 7 feet tame bear to keep fit!
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