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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 19, 2015 15:29:26 GMT
By the way, in my first reply to Dunc I stated that the specimen is definitely not European. I think it is worth explaining why I made that statement.
Note the red anal eye spot on the hindwing has a double black chevron above it. The lower black chevron separates the red eye spot from the blue above it. This character is only present in some Asian taxa and many of the New World machaon group, but is absent from all European machaon.
Adam.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 15:59:23 GMT
Thanks for the detailed reply Adam, one clue to it's provenance is that in the same box were several specimens of aglais cashmiriensis, which I also took home, all were very old and the cashmiriensis did have data from the 1930's.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 19, 2015 16:58:49 GMT
According to Wikipedia Aglais kaschmirensis is found from Kashmir to Sikkim, so they certainly could have come from the same place/collector.
I'm not sure whether the specific name should be spelt cashmiriensis, cashmirensis or kashmirensis, as all 3 spellings are on the Wikipedia page, never mind elsewhere.
Adam.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 18:23:21 GMT
I have always known it as cashmiriensis but I could be wrong. I have never seen hookeri/sikkimensis for sale before, I showed the specimen to a friend who said it looked like a machaon/hospiton hybrid which I thought was totally wrong as I have a few hybrids and it showed no signs of hospiton whatsoever so thanks for the clarification, much apprechiated.
Can you tell from the pictures if it is a male?
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Post by deliasfanatic on Apr 19, 2015 18:37:17 GMT
Dunc, the verso photo shows visible claspers - definitely a male.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 18:40:44 GMT
Cheers Danny. I have another specimen I'm not sure about which is also a mess and needs to be reset, must have been done by Stevie Wonder, I will take a picture.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 19:17:34 GMT
Here we go specimen 1 is almost 100 years old and has data.   |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 19:22:22 GMT
  pecimen 2 ex pupae from China |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 19:23:14 GMT
  pecimen 3 has no data at all. |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 19, 2015 20:36:35 GMT
Specimen 1 is a male of machaon ladakensis
Specimen 2 is a female of machaon venchuanus spring form
As for specimen 3, I wouldn't like to say for certain except that it is a male of machaon (not the hookeri group). It reminds me somewhat of the W Himalayan intermediate population between ladakensis and asiatica, but it's not possible to be sure what it is.
Adam.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 8:54:44 GMT
Many thanks Adam ,it seems I have more machaon ssp than I thought.
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Post by EarlyStages on Apr 21, 2015 8:25:18 GMT
I have heard rummors that ssp. sylvina from Taiwan is already extinct. Is it true? is indeed very rare, but I do not think extinct. It is certainly now restricted to high elevations in the middle of Taiwan's Central Mountain Range (undoubtedly flying lower decades ago and always uncommon), and while I never saw one during my nine years of living there, a close colleague at National Taiwan University in Nantou knows several local butterfly watchers who claim to have seen it. Keith |
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Post by Leonardo on Feb 2, 2021 22:03:44 GMT
hello I am interested in learning more about the subspecies of papilio machaon.
Can someone (perhaps Adam?) Suggest a publication that highlights the morphological characteristics and differences that can lead to determine the different subspecies?
Searching I found "Butterflies of the World 45: Papilionidae 16" by R. Sturm but I'm not sure if it's the right book.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Feb 3, 2021 11:01:35 GMT
Sturm's book basically contains many plates with photos of specimens and brief text listing the subspecies. I assisted him, editing the text and checking spellings, dates etc, but I left subspecies decisions to him after giving advice.
There aren't really any modern publications with text describing the characters to differentiate each subspecies, I suppose the most modern are the works of Seyer between 1974 and 1992 (major papers in 1974 and 1976), but those are rather hard to obtain and were written in German.
Adam.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Feb 3, 2021 11:04:17 GMT
P. m. sylvina is indeed very rare, but I do not think extinct. It is certainly now restricted to high elevations in the middle of Taiwan's Central Mountain Range (undoubtedly flying lower decades ago and always uncommon), and while I never saw one during my nine years of living there, a close colleague at National Taiwan University in Nantou knows several local butterfly watchers who claim to have seen it. Keith Unfortunately it seems that sylvina is extinct. Despite a few unconfirmed reports there have been no verifiable records since the earthquake and landslide in 1999 which destroyed the habitat where it lived. The foodplant has returned, but no butterflies. Adam. |
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