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Post by mothylator on Dec 17, 2019 14:48:13 GMT
Hi everbode, Does anyone recognise the handwriting on these paper triangles? I acquired these from a dealer friend who "can't recall" when or from whom he got them. And does anyone know if P. phorcas has been described in Ethiopia? (Bale Mt. National PArk, Ethiopia). Thanks.
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Post by deliasfanatic on Dec 17, 2019 15:02:16 GMT
I haven't heard of any phorcas from Ethiopia. I'd love to see a photo after you've set it; I have a large series from various parts of Tanzania (including the extreme NE, near the border with Sudan) and it would be interesting to compare.
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Post by africaone on Dec 18, 2019 6:36:58 GMT
It recalls me paper of a cheater we (including John Kamps but not only) discussed about a long time ago, a Roumanian guy (L. P.) that sold many incredible Papilio for incredible localities in Africa (including impossible one as rex from occidental Africa). He put many adds on site at this time and sold a lot of Papilio and Colias even to papilio specialists. For my part I obtained refund and never seen him again on the forum or in the ads. Quite sure it is his papers
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 18, 2019 8:10:49 GMT
I bought some specimens from "L. P." back then, and also thought that the handwriting on these specimen envelopes looked like his. I would be suspicious of strange data unless it comes from a reliable source.
Adam.
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Post by africaone on Dec 18, 2019 9:03:49 GMT
I bought some specimens from "L. P." back then, and also thought that the handwriting on these specimen envelopes looked like his. I would be suspicious of strange data unless it comes from a reliable source. Adam. those from LP are just for bin ... all the datas on his enveloppes are suspicious. Even some are correct (what I seriously doubt for African stuff), how to detect these few ? in a scientific POV, put them in the bin.
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Post by deliasfanatic on Dec 18, 2019 13:34:16 GMT
Oh yes, now I remember that guy and the fake material that he offered. I didn't obtain anything from him, so I didn't see his handwriting, but there was a lot of "impossible" things suddenly coming from him, probably including this "Ethiopian" phorcas.
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Post by mothylator on Dec 18, 2019 21:19:20 GMT
Yes I think my doubts are confirmed. I'm not going to set these, they will be going back whence they came. If anyone has more details of the original seller please feel free to PM me in complete confidence. Thank you all for your thoughts and observations.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 19, 2019 16:47:20 GMT
Here's one of the fake P. rex I bought from "L. P.". The handwriting and the style of the whole envelope is identical. Adam.
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Post by wollastoni on Dec 20, 2019 14:14:43 GMT
Sorry guys, but could we have the full name of this "L.P." in order to protect our whole community.
Thanks a lot.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 20, 2019 18:12:30 GMT
Sorry guys, but could we have the full name of this "L.P." in order to protect our whole community. Thanks a lot. Sure, his name is Luigi Puiu, from Pascani, Romania. He used a Yahoo! e-mail address with his full name in the first half when I was in contact with him about 13 years ago. I first contacted him because he advertised specimens for sale on Insectnet in December 2007. The specimens he sent me that time all seemed legitimate, with correct data, but in 2008 he offered me 3 P. rex supposedly from Ghana. I have not had any contact with him at all since then, so really don't know if he's still around or not. Adam.
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Post by deliasfanatic on Dec 20, 2019 18:47:24 GMT
IIRC, he's an artist and, at one time, had a Facebook account. I've not checked to see if that's still active, and I only had one contact with him and declined to deal with him because of obvious incorrect statements that he had made.
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Post by mothylator on Dec 20, 2019 21:42:16 GMT
Here's one of the fake P. rex I bought from "L. P.". The handwriting and the style of the whole envelope is identical. Adam. That is he exactly.
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Post by jmg on Dec 21, 2019 9:43:07 GMT
For my part, buying few butterflies (when I buy it is generally on the spot from local collectors the species that I saw flying in the wild but that I could not approach), I know little about the schemes sellers. Besides mistakes and poor organization, what would be the point of selling with erroneous catch data? Is it to stimulate the interest of buyers by displaying new or extraordinary data? An unusual place therefore the possibility of a new subspecies? Do you think I will make a fortune by selling Parnassiinae from Bolivia or Argentina? Or Papilio memnon from Alaska (new subspecies very rare in collections) ?
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Post by exoticimports on Dec 23, 2019 13:08:38 GMT
False data is rampant in the commercial supply.
Two decades ago I purchased a ssp of ornithoptera from a well known retailer and it was clear that it was only the more common ssp with faked data. Subsequent to that I learned that said popular retailer had a history of suspect specimens.
Chuck
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jhyatt
Aurelian
Posts: 224
Country: U.S.A.
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Post by jhyatt on Dec 23, 2019 20:34:23 GMT
A decade or so ago I unfortunately wound up with specimens of some South American Colias sp., papered and with "Islas Malvinas" data (i.e., the Falkland Islands). Turns out there are no Colias known from the Falklands... in fact, I don't think there are any butterflies there at all. I've been pretty suspicious of a lot of dealer material since then.
Sadder but wiser, jh
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