P. arion from Britain

[Paul K]

I never bought any historical specimen but I was thinking to give a try here
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173762749678
Do you think this is genuine specimen or could be fake, any feedback about the seller?

Paul

[nomad]

Hi Paul. Firstly not sure who this is, but be careful. There was one here that has left recently that might  have known who this seller is?  To start with he should have a permit by UK Law to sell, even an old British large blue =arion. Note. He is also selling a large amount of Dutch L. dispar which are batavus. The price also seem rather cheap for an authentic specimen = £36? and the collector of this specimen J. Hardwick does not appear in any search. Although a known collectors name on a data label is no guide to authenticity.  It might be a genuine Brit specimen but there is a possibility it might not be. Perhaps someone will have more information on who bugmancometh (296) is.

[Paul K]

Thank you Peter.

I didn’t find anything about J.Hardwick either.
The seller says in the description he has a licence to sell British specimens but who knows.
I know...that one who may know, he brexit from both forums unfortunately.

Paul

[trehopr1]

Hey Paul, just noticed your thread here. I have seen this seller before. In fact, I have "watched" this seller on several occasions for specimens he was selling. He is a British seller to be sure. Near everything I have ever seen him sell was of British origin however, he does offer some European stuff from time to time. Sometimes, he does not offer anything for quite a span and then "boom" he is back at it.

His material usually looks pretty good but, too many buyers with deeper pockets than me wind up winning the bids. Also, there is the matter of shipping cost. It fluctuates somewhat and it's never really cheap (as compared with parts of Eastern Europe). That price that Nomad stated is impossibly low so that may indicate something not from Britain. Best Regards...

[nomad]

I can now state that the Large Blue specimen is certainly an authentic British arion specimen, as are all the rest of his rarities, and the seller is one hundred per cent trustworthy, so happy bidding and good luck.    Apologies to the seller and he is not selling the dutch dispar that is  oldpigsqueel, sorry for that error.

[Paul K]

Thank you Peter
It is good to know the seller is an honest gentleman.
I look forward to check his specimens.

Paul

[Paul K]

In the thorax there is old pin hole right under the pin, any thoughts

[jhyatt]

Hmmm... I usually consider repinning, or a 2nd pin hole, to be a good sign of authenticity in a supposedly very old specimen. Really old pins are often weak, bent, or corroded and
the bug is safer on a new pin. To me, it's a sign of old age in a specimen. What am I missing here?

Tks,
jh

[Paul K]

Feb 2, 2019 15:25:22 GMT jhyatt said:

Hmmm... I usually consider repinning, or a 2nd pin hole, to be a good sign of authenticity in a supposedly very old specimen. Really old pins are often weak, bent, or corroded and
the bug is safer on a new pin. To me, it's a sign of old age in a specimen. What am I missing here?

Tks,
jh

But the “new” pin looks like old brass English short pin. Perhaps someone replaced old pin with old style pin but Radusho is also right about the label.

[nomad]

The only thing I can say, is that I never knew or saw the person who captured this specimen and did not see who wrote the data label. How many can say this about old specimens. So I cannot say for 100 per cent certain this is a British Large Blue. If its not from Britain where do you suppose it came from? I only know the seller who has a very large British personal collection which all look good to me and I have bought many specimens from him with great satisfaction and do regard him as a trustworthy seller as I have already said. 

[trehopr1]

I think Radusho makes a very valid point to keep in mind (quote: even with a small level of uncertainty you will never be happy with such a specimen).

Whenever I look over specimens offered by sellers on EBay (and they peak my interest) I have to take a step back and ask myself:
A.) Do I really have to have it....

B.) Does it look bred or has it been wild caught.

C.) Is the price already taking off and how many bidders or watchers are there...

D.) Am I truely happy with it's general appearance enough to pay the cost (not including shipping).

These are just extra precautions I take when I can't just be right there on the spot to buy the item outright !

I have nearly always made my specimen purchases in person. Seeing them up close and personal to make the best choices or wisest ones. So, buying something from overseas and going only by a photograph has an element of "chance" about it which I am not used to.

However, nothing ventured nothing gained as has been said. I have probably made about 20 foreign purchases over the last 2 years via EBay and have only been dis-pleased on just 2 occasions. So, I suppose my close scrutiny has paid off in all that I have thus far managed to be happy with.

So keep in mind these sort of questions Paul and always use your personal "high standards" or " tough standards" as a shield.

[nomad]

 I do agree that if you are not happy with a specimen on ebay then don't buy it. As to the yellowing of age of data labels, say from 1930 some do and some don't, it all depends what sort of conditions the specimens were kept in, I have many 19th century and earlier 20th century images of bonafide museum specimens where the data labels have not gone a shade of yellow with age. As to the extra pin hole, quite a few collectors reset their specimens, I believe many here have. I might add that the seller has gone to the trouble of getting a permit to sell British large blues. I am not sure there are many out there that do not care about authenticity, I find this a strange statement indeed, after all there are not many of us that have money to throw away. 

[Paul K]

Well, at the end I trusted Peter as he knows seller in person, unfortunately I was outbid twice   .

As we are on the subject how does work resale of British protected species, if I would buy one ( in the future ) and want to sell legally back to someone in England or somewhere else in the world. Do I need to get the license and if so from where  and whom.
Is it more complicated than CITES?

Just wonder what are the laws?

Paul

[nomad]

I myself have never sold anything protected, indeed I have never sold anything on ebay.   but a search of the web has produced this to sell British protected species taken before 1981. There are I might add quite a few British butterflies that are not protected by law, but it is an offence to sell them without a license. They are in the act protected from sale. There is a full list at the link below.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/licence-to-sell-animal-specimens-taken-before-october-1981

www.ukbutterflies.co.uk/law.php

It also seems from this link that M. arion is protected in most European countries.

[Paul K]

Seems like another difficult process to obtain the license. I think I may skip the idea of buying British specimens.
I am planning to move my collection to Thailand and I wish to make this process as smooth as possible.
I will most likely sale all 4 drawers of my Birdwings too before, possibly within Canada to avoid the hustle with CITES.

Paul