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Post by trehopr1 on Feb 16, 2015 4:47:52 GMT
I love seeing other people's collections. I can't help but feel exuberant at the thought of seeing another collectors perspective,hard work,determination, and endearing passion for what gives them personal fulfillment. I very much enjoy the exchange of knowledge which occurs as well as the marvelous tales of captures,near misses,events of the day, or long awaited acquisitions. But, I am left to ponder what a travesty it is when a collection grows well out of proportion to the owners ability to care for OR even appreciate the wonder of it anymore. Let me lament my tale.....
I first met "John" (as I will call him) back in the late 1980's. I learned from the "get-go" that John was no "ordinary" collector like myself. He was clearly "on another level". On our first meeting alone I quickly established that he had monetary means, a VERY passionate personal drive and, obvious connections. How did that occur so quickly on one meet and greet? Well, after only about 20 minutes of conversation he reached for his wallet and opened it and out tumbled a column of plastic sleeved photo's just like some people have their credit cards. The column hit the floor from 4 feet up and still un-rolled another foot ! He than said "want to see my collection"?
The mind boggled. Not one family photograph. Only his precious. I was both humbled and in awe AT THE SAME TIME... These pictures were not of singular specimens,pairs, or even short series. They were of drawer "fulls" of species. From what I could see he had "ALL THE BIG GUNS COVERED". His main interest he said was butterflies which did seem to make up about 80% of his wallet photo's. However, both Saturniidae and large showy beetles (Dynastinae & Cerambycidae) looked well represented.
It took me another 4 or 5 months to finally pin down a date to actually SEE for myself all this wonderment. And wonderment it was ...... I can only say here that he had (as he put it) about "800 drawers representing 20 years of aggressive collecting". Now, the house he lived in was small like the "starter home" type built for the returning military of WW2. One level with a full basement but, smallish rooms. At that time I would say he pretty much had the bug room i.e.(basement) filled to capacity but,one could still navigate the area fairly well so that curation and upkeep of the holdings was possible. Over the next 4 or so years I managed a couple more viewings and still came away thunderstruck at what money,obsession, and connections will get you.
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Post by trehopr1 on Feb 16, 2015 5:01:52 GMT
I myself got married and then had family come along so contact with my friend ebbed away for many years. Then 2 years ago I ran into him at an event and he remarked to me that the collection had grown bigger over the years and now numbered OVER 2000 drawers ! A mutual friend whom I've had talks with said to me that he had visited the home last year and remarked that the collection is now "totally inaccessible " as any walkable space that was present is now filled by STACKS of drawers ! My distant friend remarked to me upon our accidental meeting 2 years ago that he "hadn't looked at much of that stuff" in the last 20 years. How about that. I'd like to hear your thoughts....
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Post by Paul K on Feb 16, 2015 5:43:12 GMT
I think some people can not distinguish between passion and obsession. I personally do not like to collect more then 3 or 4 pairs of each species. To fill up the drawer with 100 same butterflies just to make big numbers for me it is unnecessary killing of life unless It has scientific purpose.
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Post by trehopr1 on Feb 16, 2015 6:37:21 GMT
Thank you paul1 for your input. I welcome all viewpoints regarding this topic. The more the merrier ! I think some collectors would be quick to point out that they just "love that bug" so therefore they want to see whatever variations or abberations occur within it. And if it is known to have several subspecies than they will probably desire to have them all. Some folks are just very "focused" on their likes and dis- likes. And yet still, let me ask this --- if you for example always obsessed from when you were a boy that Papilio homerus was just 1 of those top 10 butterfly species in your book. And it turns out that you one day have the monetary means and connections to make pulling togather a drawer of that butterfly a reality -- given time -- not all at once. Than would you really settle for just 1 or 2 pairs OR would all that remaining empty space in the drawer prompt you to just "FILL IT IN A LITTLE MORE" so it looks better. I mean really a drawer like that under single ownership is a POWER TRIP ! ! And I tell ya' when my friend showed me his FULL drawer of a dozen homerus acquired over the years from old collections; my jaw hit the floor like a lead brick. I'm sort of playing the devil's advocate now. But, I do hope this topic kicks up some lively conversation and opinion.
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Post by wollastoni on Feb 16, 2015 9:55:34 GMT
Of course all kinds of collection can be an addiction, insect collections too.
Then if this man is happy to live in a very small house and have a huge collection... no problem for me. I know plenty of men with splendid house who aren't happy.
Personnally I have chosen to collect Delias only in order to be more focused, to be able to invest more money on rare Delias or collecting trips, for a space issue but furthermore for a time issue. If I had more free time, I would also collect Lycaenidae, some Nymphalidae genera (Agrias, Mynes) and some other Pieridae (Catasticta, Mylothris...).
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Post by Paul K on Feb 16, 2015 11:25:50 GMT
If the specimens come from farming then maybe i would fill up my drawer coze it helps a little poor communities ( of course helps more dealers) . If the butterflies are cought wild then I'd say no ,unless I steady them and need more material for research. For me it is really enough to have one or two examples of species. Of course if there is big variations or many subspecies then sure I would love to have them all. I am also not a fan of commercial collecting for sale. I really believe that collecting from one location to many specimens would Destroy balance of nature. I have to admit though I bought few specimens of Internet too.
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Post by Paul K on Feb 16, 2015 11:48:51 GMT
I collect butterflies for their beauty and I am more happy to see them flying around then dead on the pins. However to see their beauty in details and whenever I wish so I do collect them . Collecting insects should not be mixed up with other hobby collections as stamps, cars, models etc. . We collect live creatures and we should respect them all and do as low demadge as possible in their lives.
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Post by wollastoni on Feb 16, 2015 11:58:27 GMT
Agree. And I think entomologists have far more "respect" for insects than the rest of human beings.
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Post by Paul K on Feb 16, 2015 12:30:17 GMT
Entomologists, nature lovers and some collectors who can see and understand the wildlife, enjoy its wonder can for sure respect and help to preserve as much as possible of it. Collectors who collect just to fill up the drawers with big numbers and have desire to possessed more trophies are not respecting or protecting it and should start to collect something else .
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Post by wollastoni on Feb 16, 2015 13:00:03 GMT
I know hundreds of insect collectors and not a single one like the one you are describing in your last post, Paul.
But you are right, they must exist (even if they would be an extreme minority) and those should better collect stamps. We don't need "bad publicity" from them.
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Post by trehopr1 on Feb 16, 2015 20:05:44 GMT
The central theme of my thread was the "puzzling travesty " that I find when a persons obsession with their hobby or interest spins off ( so to speak) into far left field. In such a case their continuing obsession means that they lose control of their ability to properly care for what they have worked so hard to own. It leads us to than question if there is any real wonder or appreciation left in it for them? This is not so much a question about insect lives or their worth philosophical or otherwise. I can tell you that 90% of what my distant friend had was acquired through the purchases of various old collections. His collection was really a composite collection of approximately 20 absorbed collections. This was not stuff gradually cherry-picked from insect fairs or from a host of worldly trips. He just had the monetary means to pretty much buy whatever he wanted. And if there was any weakness showed in another collectors interest or willingness to sell than he jumped at the opportunity. That is what people with money do. And a strong sense of personal DRIVE continues to propel them forward. I suppose each conquest or acquisition for them is where their real gratification is realized. But, I must say that when one sees a person with FAR more than any ONE person should have and than sees it treated with relative un-concern it makes you realize that money(means) does not necessarily buy one contentment. For some people like this man they just continue to search for that wonder or appreciation they MAY have once had OR might never have.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 22:05:33 GMT
I've only just read this post so here are my views,they are only my opinions, collecting of voucher specimens is an absolute for making a proper study of insects, photographs are a very useful add on as are concise field notes, accurate data and in the case of old specimens as much historical info as possible, the anti collecting brigades views on collecting are predudiced in the extreme, not based on any sound knowledge of the subject whatsoever and quite often hypocritical. However, having drawer upon drawer of the same species can be seen as hoarding, in fact I know of people who have amassed huge collections of specimens who hardly ever bother to look at them, money also plays a big part where every specimen of certain species, whatever the condition are slaughtered and sold, this to me is morally wrong.
My own personal collection is in 4 parts, exotics, European, Historical British and fourthly my local collection where I am trying to build up as much of a picture as I possibly can of the lepidoptera in my area before it all gets covered in concrete as it surely will. Each part of it is as valuable to me as any of the other 3, sure there are times when I have had to pay big money for exotic rarities but not that often. Some collect for beauties sake, some for scientific research some just for personal satisfaction, none of these reasons are wrong to me, each to their own but I cannot agree with killing for killings sake just to hoard, these are living creatures and we should only take what is absolutely necessary and leave the rest for others to enjoy, not that I think over collecting is responsible for the current dearth of insect numbers throughout the world, that is down to other factors, as I said this is only my opinion.
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leon
Junior Aurelian
Birthday : Feb 5
Posts: 95
Country: United States
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Post by leon on Jul 13, 2016 15:22:27 GMT
I think some people can not distinguish between passion and obsession. I personally do not like to collect more then 3 or 4 pairs of each species. To fill up the drawer with 100 same butterflies just to make big numbers for me it is unnecessary killing of life unless It has scientific purpose. I only want one of each species (male & female if possible) unless there's a distinct difference in the specimens. For example, coccinellidae may come with different spots or no spots at all. More than one of each is clutter in my mind.
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Post by timmsyrj on Jul 13, 2016 19:59:45 GMT
I am a collector who likes a large series of specimens where possible, primarily of the widespread, commoner species as geographical variation and sub.species variation can be great, but also I buy ranched of bred species in bulk from butterfly ranchers where I can, especially Indonesia and the Philippines. Obviously collecting a drawer full of rare specimens confined to one small colony is neither scientifically or environmentally useful, where I can with these species, if I'm collecting them personally (I haven't swung a net for 10 years or more) I would collect a gravid female to hopefully rear a small series of perfect specimens for the collection. As a few might have read, I have re started breeding this year, I bought 22 silver washed fritillary (A.paphia) this spring and had 14 adults flying in my greenhouse, a few still there, I must have a couple of thousand eggs both in the greenhouse and from 2 females I separated into a small cage, hopefully next year I should have quite a series from these for my collection and if enough survive the winter I may be swapping a few for a different species or two.
Rich
You can go to a wild area and collect all the adults you see flying and they'll still be there next year, but plough it or build a housing estate on it and they won't be..
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Post by nomad on Jul 18, 2016 17:02:23 GMT
Perhaps when you collect anything.
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