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Post by mothylator on Nov 24, 2018 16:09:54 GMT
Hi everyone. I've struggled with the big picture of the nireus group for the longest time. Recently re-visited this area, and oh my! how little has changed since the 1980s.
It would be REALLY great if we could see accumulated examples of some of the less-commonly presented forms/subspecies, alongside more frequently seen examples for comparison. This could be a really interesting thread.
The forms of interest might be:
1. P. nireus pseudonireus compared with nominate and ssp. lyaeus (tho' lyaeus might well be more than one ssp./sp.)? 2. P. nireus from Nyasaland compared with lyaeus? 3. P. chrapkowsoides vs chrapkowskii vs interjectana dorsal AND ventral. Partly to correlate usefulness of the upperside median band reaching anal margin, and the underside plain appearance, in separating interjectana from the others? 4. P. thurai form heathi vs others in "bromius" subgroup? 5. P. ufipa?
How about starting with P. nireus pseudonireus? Maybe we could "crowd-source" some series for goup discussion and reference?? Would anyone with any pseudonireus perhaps be able to post pics of dorsal and ventral with location and capture month data?
Looking forward to seeing some ideas coming out of this under-researched species group.
I will post pics when we get to 3.-5. , but at present, I'm still waiting to acquire some reliable pseudonireus with convincing data!
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Post by deliasfanatic on Nov 24, 2018 16:48:04 GMT
It's a very interesting group, and I have quite a bit of material for comparison. I'll do some photos when times allows. I do have pseudonireus from Ethiopia, and others that are at least transitional (variable, but many could easily be called pseudonireus) from NE Uganda. I've also been working on large series of several species from Malawi that may hold more than they seem at first glance.
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Post by mcheki on Nov 24, 2018 16:53:29 GMT
Good luck with this project. I know of others with the same unanswered questions about this group. To help start I will respond to your request for P nitrus pseudonireus. I can not easily access my papilionidae drawers at the moment due to other projects so will rely on previously taken photos. This drawer shows some that I have placed in this taxon but with a question mark. These are in the first column. The series comes from Hassama, Bore, Shashamene , and Awasa in Ethiopia and one from Moroto in north Uganda. The three specimens I have labelled as intermediates above these are all from north Kenya.
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Post by mothylator on Nov 24, 2018 18:08:10 GMT
That's a fantastic drawer, Mcheki. Putting the aristophontes mentally to one side (if I can! - fab. specimens) So ... where in North Kenya are the "intermediates" from?
Also, how useful is the presence of submarginal dots? P. nireus lyaeus does it ever have submarginal dots? The West African nireus nominate shouldn't have - according to Larsen (2005) p76. However he shows a pic of a "narrow-banded nireus" from Guinea which does have such dots.... (Plate 2 fig 11b).
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Post by cabintom on Nov 24, 2018 18:39:06 GMT
P. nireus lyaeus does it ever have submarginal dots? I have a specimen from Uganda with very small forewing submarginal spots, but my other 3 male specimens don't.
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Post by mcheki on Nov 25, 2018 12:24:04 GMT
That's a fantastic drawer, Mcheki. Putting the aristophontes mentally to one side (if I can! - fab. specimens) So ... where in North Kenya are the "intermediates" from?
To answer your question about the north Kenya specimens. The top one is from Mt Kulal, 2/1996. Next is from Marich Pass 5/1996 and the bottom one from “North of Lamu” 6/1991. Lamu is on the coast. I attach a photo of their undersides. Please note that I have just realised that the specimen that I mentioned from Moroto in the thread above is not in the drawer photo. I must have added it to the drawer after the photo was taken, but the details had been added to my checklist database. My apologies.
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mac
New Aurelian
Posts: 27
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Post by mac on Nov 26, 2018 16:05:53 GMT
Hi All, I am also interested in working out the detail over this group and have a fairly reasonable collection of these, albeit they are not neatly presented I have however no idea how to post any pics so if someone could point me in the right direction, if it is of interest then I would be happy to post. I am just a bit concerned over file size as there are quite a few drawers
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Post by wollastoni on Nov 26, 2018 17:04:47 GMT
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mac
New Aurelian
Posts: 27
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Post by mac on Nov 26, 2018 17:59:42 GMT
Excellent, I will try this now and see what happens
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mac
New Aurelian
Posts: 27
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Post by mac on Nov 26, 2018 18:14:47 GMT
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mac
New Aurelian
Posts: 27
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Post by mac on Nov 26, 2018 18:17:05 GMT
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mac
New Aurelian
Posts: 27
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Post by mac on Nov 26, 2018 18:18:46 GMT
Think that worked. please excuse the state of the drawers as this is a work in progress. Plus some of the nomenclature is outdated
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Post by deliasfanatic on Nov 26, 2018 18:59:00 GMT
A great addition to our group for study. I'll try to photograph my group drawers in the next day or two.
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mac
New Aurelian
Posts: 27
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Post by mac on Nov 26, 2018 21:46:27 GMT
Should I load up the rest of this group? There are circa another 14 boxes?
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Post by deliasfanatic on Nov 26, 2018 22:00:30 GMT
By all means, please do.
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