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Post by nomad on Oct 2, 2015 16:58:08 GMT
Yes, back to the Ornithoptera books. Now you are owner of the volumes Michel, can you give us your thoughts. I shall certainly get these books. Although the price may not be within everyone's reach, it is very reasonable for such a lavish and comprehensive production. The prices some suggested here, are far lower than everyone expected. To be honest, some collectors will pay more for one or two pairs of birdwings.
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Post by mygos on Oct 2, 2015 18:12:44 GMT
Peter, I will be away till tuesday, but I will be pleased to comment this book when I get back unless an Ornithoptera's expert whish to do it for me, as I guess I am not the only one here that purchased the book ?
A+, Michel
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Post by nomad on Oct 4, 2015 8:04:09 GMT
O.K thanks Michel, I look forward to your comments, I bought the books yesterday at the AES, so although I am certainly no expert, I have been studying the Ornithoptera for a number of years, especially their history, so will add a few comments.
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Post by nomad on Oct 4, 2015 18:29:21 GMT
The Work of Deslise and Sclavo is without doubt magnificent and the photographs of specimens are a work of art in themselves. This will be the standard Ornithoptera work for years to come The historical section is very pleasing. Sorry to knit pick but A.E Pratt's son was not named Carl B. Pratt ( page 55) but Charles B. Pratt see. archive.org/details/cbarchive_55563_alistofmothsofthefamilypyralid1833see also archive.org/stream/bulletinofh112192122hill#page/n485/mode/2up/search/1912I believe A.E.Pratt named his son after his father who was also named Charles. I was bought up to note that authors were either splitters or lumpers. Some regard a host of subspecies of one species, while others regard few. Although the authors have bought sense to chaos regarding subspecies, the local forms are even more extensive. As geographical forms are interesting in themselves, collectors of the different races and forms will be happy. Some of the new forms it seems have been procured and named from dealers material. Hopefully the localities are bona fide. Just a few thoughts. I was surprised to see the omission of the new River Digul O. paradisea race, named knoetgeni Schaffler 2014, a diminutive and heavily marked race. It is interesting that under Authors of Major Works of the Contemporary Period, they choose to ignore ' Birdwing Butterflies of the World by Bernard d' Abrera. Outstanding Birdwing Butterflies is a remarkable work that will see me through the dark nights of the forthcoming winter.
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Post by nomad on Oct 4, 2015 19:45:40 GMT
It seems I made a page and a bit in the new Birdwing Book, the authors quoted my thread on pages 65-66 see insectnet.proboards.com/thread/4326/michael-hudson-butterfly-farming-birdwings The information used on page 65 was through my own study. The correspondance, page 66, was supplied by my friend Jacques Porteneuve who permission was given to use his valuable information in my article. The authors were welcome to use quotes from my article and it would have been a courtesy to have been asked.
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Post by nomad on Oct 5, 2015 15:52:25 GMT
It is nice to see the authors of the new birdwing book used my article on Ray Straatman for certain references see insectnet.proboards.com/thread/4156/ray-straatman-birdwing-guru Written with the help of the late Jan Pasternak Word for word in this paragraph In 1976 Ray succeeds for the first time in crossbreeding O. victoriae with O. priamus urvillianus and thus proves that the so called ' O. allottei is not a species but a hybrid. In 1978 someone in the Fishery and Wildlife Dept gathers evidence and charges Ray with the illegal catching and dealing with protected birdwings. He is found guilty and ordered to leave his beloved Papua. Page 59. I should take this at a complement. nomad on InsectNet seems to have been a good resource.
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Post by mygos on Oct 6, 2015 13:35:19 GMT
The Work of Deslise and Sclavo is without doubt magnificent and the photographs of specimens are a work of art in themselves. This will be the standard Ornithoptera work for years to come The historical section is very pleasing. Sorry to knit pick but A.E Pratt's son was not named Carl B. Pratt ( page 55) but Charles B. Pratt see. archive.org/details/cbarchive_55563_alistofmothsofthefamilypyralid1833see also archive.org/stream/bulletinofh112192122hill#page/n485/mode/2up/search/1912I believe A.E.Pratt named his son after his father who was also named Charles. I was bought up to note that authors were either splitters or lumpers. Some regard a host of subspecies of one species, while others regard few. Although the authors have bought sense to chaos regarding subspecies, the local forms are even more extensive. As geographical forms are interesting in themselves, collectors of the different races and forms will be happy. Some of the new forms it seems have been procured and named from dealers material. Hopefully the localities are bona fide. Just a few thoughts. I was surprised to see the omission of the new River Digul O. paradisea race, named knoetgeni Schaffler 2014, a diminutive and heavily marked race. It is interesting that under Authors of Major Works of the Contemporary Period, they choose to ignore ' Birdwing Butterflies of the World by Bernard d' Abrera. Outstanding Birdwing Butterflies is a remarkable work that will see me through the dark nights of the forthcoming winter. Peter, About Charles or Carl Pratt, I guess it comes from translations of first name's by publishers, as I have seen Carlo Oberthür on an italian publication instead of Charles Oberthür ! Also d'Abrera's works "Birdwing butterflies" are mentionned on page 37 entitled "Man and Birdwing butterflies", and on page 1632 "Main authors" May be you have been reading too late that night due to the magnificence of the book A+, Michel
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Post by mygos on Oct 6, 2015 13:40:35 GMT
It seems I made a page and a bit in the new Birdwing Book, the authors quoted my thread on pages 65-66 see insectnet.proboards.com/thread/4326/michael-hudson-butterfly-farming-birdwingsBut they neither asked permission or was I given any credit. The information used on page 65 was through my own study. The correspondance, page 66, was supplied by my friend Jacques Porteneuve who permission was given to use his valuable information in my article. The authors were welcome to use quotes from my article and it would have been a courtesy to have been asked. Honestly Peter, I believe Jacques sent the text of your post to Gilles, but just the content probably without taking attention to the fact that you wrote it. This is the problem of copy/paste from most website where you loose many importants facts and precisions ... May be Jacques did not expect Gilles to publish it as you did ? Did you send him an email ? A+, Michel
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Post by nomad on Oct 6, 2015 13:49:18 GMT
Thanks Michel but Carl is a different name to Charles and I have seen this mistake before. It is no big deal using parts my articles on InsectNet and as parts of them are in the book, no need now for any mail. I myself would have found out who have written the articles and sent them a mail. This would have been easy as I correspond with Jacques.
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Post by nomad on Oct 6, 2015 13:57:17 GMT
Yes, I have been reading the book late at night and imagine my surprise when I began reading page 65, very interesting I thought, I know who wrote that.
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Post by mygos on Oct 6, 2015 14:47:15 GMT
Here are my first thoughts about Gilles & Jean-Pierre books, but as everyone know, I am not an expert on Ornithoptera, but as many people I found them just beautiful Gilles gave me the authorisation to scan some pages to comment this new publication on forums or FB ... Here are the 3 pages giving the content of the book : I don't know if these will be readable. If not send me a PM with your email adress ! It is a very different approach from scientific monographies as we are now used too ! The systematic analyse of species and subspecies is here replaced by a magnifiscent photographic album of the variations of each and every species and supspecies, naming many major individual forms. The authors are not recognising many previous subspecies and treat many of them as local forms. For example O victoriae has only 2 subspecies : victoriae and rubianus. Regis, archeri, isabellae, reginae, victoriae and epiphanes are all considered local forms of O. victoriae victoriae. DNA analyses have not been taken in consideration, which could seem strange, but this work was started a long time ago, before DNA was in use, otherwise I guess it would have never been published The study is almost only based on morphological observations. First stages are illustrated throughout the work but no special considerations were given in relations to the systematic point of view. What is very interesting is the presence of keys for each and every subgenera, species, subspecies, and local forms. All males and females are shown lifesize. 139 distributions maps, etc. The historical part is an interesting reading, and I am sorry for Peter ( nomad) as He participated to this chapter without being aknowledged Big parts are dedicated to aberations, gynandromophs and other oddities here are just a few scans picked here and there : I know this book will generate many discussions, of people being happy, and some not. I think this is the only way things changes in new directions, and I think this is great providing every comments made are constructives and said with good education Note to wollastoni or nomad, please do not hesitate to edit and correct english language mistakes I made But at least to comment this book, you have to order yourself a copy and as only a 1000 copies were produced, I would not wait too long if I was you As a bibliophil, I would add that the 2 volumes are very nicely printed, produced and binded, under protectives dustwrappers, and hold in a semi-open box. One problem to mention, is that due to the weight of the book and the packing used by the publisher, many copies will certainly arrived with bumped corners and so ... I did mention this to the publisher, but he does not realize yet how the handling is made through world's Post-offices Hope many of you will appreciate this book and look forward to read your comments here ... A+, Michel
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Post by nomad on Oct 6, 2015 16:13:08 GMT
Very nice and interesting review Michel of this Outstanding Book. Thank you. I am not sure anybody who is seriously interested in these magnificent insects will want to miss out on these volumes. I already knew at least as far paradisea is concerned, that the authors only recognize four subspecies and the rest as local forms. The fact that the New Guinea O. goliath populations all belonged to the nominate race was first put forward by d' Abrera ( 1975) but then was largely ignored . I guess the taxonomy of the birdwings as proposed by the authors will not please everyone and will raise a few eyebrows among others. This book is sure to give birdwing enthusiasts years of delight. These books are heavy, I know I carried them back through London after the AES fair
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 6, 2015 17:30:40 GMT
Yes a fantastic book from Deslisle, Sclavo & Andrews !
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Post by trehopr1 on Oct 6, 2015 18:30:03 GMT
I never got the name of the place where one can order a set of these. What is their approximate price?
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Post by mygos on Oct 6, 2015 20:05:38 GMT
I never got the name of the place where one can order a set of these. What is their approximate price? Trehopr1, you just have to read the post on page 3 ! You have the email where to order and the launching price of 550 euros + shipping charges has been maintained until the end of october You will not find it on amazon.com I am afraid A+, Michel
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