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Post by Paul K on Mar 26, 2016 7:40:21 GMT
To all our members.
I am in the process of rearranging my collection. One of the first things I want to do is to design new label style. I am thinking to include all data including specimens name on one label as I found out having two or three labels on one pin make them unreadable without removing them which cause loosed holes or making new holes in them. Another issue is the placement of the specimen on the pin. I used to place them about 7mm down the pin head, but i don't like the look of them anymore as they seem to be too high from the pinning bottom and too close to the glass. I started not long time ago place them about 12mm from the pin head. I only have in my collection some 1200+ specimens so i would have to reset all of them as I want to change also all black pins to stainless steal. Is there any way to change the pin without relaxing a specimen as some of them are nicely spread and besides changing a pin and the label the wings are in good arrangement. I would like to set all new standards before I will start to spread my all new specimens 800+ collected in South east Asia so i can avoid double work.
I am all excited to hear from all of members what is there standards about specimen placement and labels format. Any samples of labels, photos or excel formats, templates would be very welcomed to see.
Thank you for your participation in my rearrangements.
Paul
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Post by mygos on Mar 26, 2016 9:10:05 GMT
Well Paul, about the height of the specimen on the pin, 7 mm is definitely to short to handle them properly ! I think 12 mm is better, but I have no specimen with me of my old collection to confirms this ... I would definitely not print specimen name on a unique label as classification keeps changing through the year, and would mean to reprint labels occasionally !
A+, Michel
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Post by nomad on Mar 26, 2016 16:30:41 GMT
Is there any way to change the pin without relaxing a specimen as some of them are nicely spread and besides changing a pin and the label the wings are in good arrangement. A number of collectors set there specimens as rectos to gain a flat surface and then when they are dry, turning the specimen, they remove the pin and replace it if they want to show the versos. You need to be very nimble handed to do this and I have never tried it. I have seen it done by a various collectors and one master setter does this all the time. No problem. If you are going to try this without relaxing a specimen to change the pin, good luck. Try a specimen of a common species first.
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Post by deliasfanatic on Mar 26, 2016 17:30:49 GMT
I wrote a reply several hours ago, but the website apparently had a problem and it was lost. I'll try again now... Here is a sample of my standard specimen label. It's about 22 x 17 mm. I also make a smaller size, with reduced font, for very small specimens such as Lycaenidae; I use the standard size for all others. If a specimen has more extensive data, you can eliminate the middle blank line (which I usually have to do), and/or put the ssp on the same line with the genus/species. You can also reduce font size if necessary. If I know the original collector's name, I'll add it after the date, usually on another line. It's important to use a laser printer; inkjet printer ink is not permanent, and it can fade or become smeared/obscured over time from insect oil or other contaminants. I use a heavy card stock for labels, not thin ordinary letter paper. For positioning labels, I use a pinning block from BioQuip; I'm sure that similar models will be available elsewhere. I use the 12mm height position for most specimens, but sometimes have to place them a bit lower if the specimen body is very large. You can sometimes remove a pin from a dry specimen and reinsert a new one of the same or slightly larger size, if the original pin is not tightly adhering to the specimen. It can be difficult to exactly reposition the new pin to slide in properly, and some specimens are rather delicate to do this without relaxing first. I do it frequently, but with great care; so far, I've only found one for which I was unable to find the reinsertion point and proper angle, and had to relax the specimen to reinsert a new pin.
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Post by trehopr1 on Mar 26, 2016 19:34:25 GMT
Paul K, on the matter of you potentially swapping out your specimens pins for all stainless --- I would say DON'T mess with what you already have established ! ! Only move FORWARD with the idea of using stainless for all FUTURE prepared material. I say this for your own piece of mind and sanity. Honestly, you have personally collected much of what you own so there is an irreplaceable sense of attachment to the specimens and the work it's taken you to present them so nicely. Any idea's of trying to slide them off their present pins should be dashed -- simply put. Any safe manner of removal requires relaxation and subsequent re-mounting. A monumental task in the least which means you might never be able to prepare up your recent material for years ! Dry removal is a horror story just thinking about it.... Specimens could wind up sliding up and down the pins or spin --- unless glued. Legs would be lost and bodies potentially broken. Few of us Paul are that adept at really truely HANDLING these things dried. Uniformity in ones collection is a pleasing thing but, save that thought for the arena of label printing or species identification. You have 1200+ wonderful finished things already which if you wish you can make labels for and relatively easily replace without damaging anything. Your stuff looks great already (as you have posted many fine pictures) and I would just leave well enough alone ! Use the " new type" pin idea for your "new" things.... Wishing you the best in your endeavors. Trehopr1
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 20:16:47 GMT
I personally would never remove a dry brittle set specimen from a pin without relaxing it first even if they are immaculately set, relax them for 24 hours first, they are very easy to reset with minimal work with the setting needle needed and it will avoid those head in hands moments when you ruin a fine choice specimen as you surely will.
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Post by deliasfanatic on Mar 26, 2016 20:45:55 GMT
"Spinners" have been my main reason for removing/reinserting pins; of course a larger size is needed to stop the spinning after reinserting a pin. It's true that it may be living dangerously to do it with dry specimens...I have a lot of practice at it, but I shouldn't really recommend it to others unless you also get a lot of practice on common or damaged specimens!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 21:10:26 GMT
I agree danny about spinners, you are safe with those but I have neither the skills or the nerve to do it on other non relaxed specimens.
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Post by Paul K on Mar 27, 2016 7:22:17 GMT
So far I can see Danny is including specimen's name on the main label as Michel is strongly not recommending as the genus are changing thru the years. I wonder about others opinion and preferences. As per changing a pin without relaxing I agree that it is too risky as some force has to be applied to the thorax causing it to squished or sudden loose from the pin which in effect slides down the specimen with the force smashing it onto the surface below ending up with ruined specimen, anger, disappointment, drama and mixed feelings about the collection at all . I have done it before too. My question was if there is any other method to soften only the pin/thorax area without relaxing the wings. As per specimen placing on the pin I was worry that maybe 12mm down the pin head is too low but I guess if Danny is doing that with his massive collection then it is good. I also agree that with thick body moths like Sphinx the placement should be a bit higher to have the room for label and inserting pin into the pining board. Trehopr1, thank you for your kind words in regards my collection. Yes, I put all my heart into it and spend a lot of time to search for my butterflies and moths, but I am too picky about small details as I am sure you are also as I have seen your specimens too and if I am not 99% satisfy I would not have " a good night sleep ". But as per your good advice I will work on my new material with my new set up standards and then reset some of my older specimens which don't look good enough to me. At the last if time permits I would slowly convert other specimens or leave them as they are, depending how much new material I would get in the future. Travelling to collecting areas is not coming cheap. Paul PS. It looks like I should buy new laser printer too.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Mar 27, 2016 13:23:14 GMT
"So far I can see Danny is including specimen's name on the main label as Michel is strongly not recommending as the genus are changing thru the years. I wonder about others opinion and preferences."
I include the current taxon name on my labels, since it is better to have everything visible on a single label rather than having to remove the lower label to be able to read it. I occasionally reprint a label if I find that a specimen is incorrectly identified (ie. a different species or subspecies from my original identification) but it really doesn't matter if the names on the labels don't reflect the generic classification of the day. These are in reality a matter of subjectivity, as are opinions whether a particular subspecies or species is a synonym of another or not. Unless a specimen is actually misidentified (not just had its name changed because of classification) I don't think it is worth reprinting a label.
Adam.
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jhyatt
Aurelian
Posts: 224
Country: U.S.A.
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Post by jhyatt on Mar 27, 2016 14:17:00 GMT
On the rare occasions when I put my own determination on a specimen pin, it goes on the first line of the data label. But in general I use unit trays and have a genus/species/subspecies label at the start of the series. With all my examples of a species or subspecies within a unit tray, and a label in the unit tray, I see no need for individual i.d. labels.
The exception is when I have a specimen identified by an expert - then I attach a separate determination label which includes the name of the identifier and the year in which it was determined.
Dr. J. F. G. Clarke from the Smithsonian once visited me, and I apologized to him for not having all my determination labels consonant with the most current revisions. He said to me something to the effect of "John, they're your insects, and you can and put any name you want to on them - and arrange them in any order that pleases you!" I liked that.
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Post by deliasfanatic on Mar 27, 2016 14:47:01 GMT
Paul - I meant that the label is positioned at 12mm above the bottom of the pin, not the specimen. I manually place each specimen in place on the pin, with the usual idea being to leave about 10mm of pin above the thorax. Again, I'll adjust this slightly for very large-bodied specimens, but always leaving enough so that the pinhead can be gripped safely by fingers.
Yes, I always place an identification on the label. As Adam says, the "current genus" is not so important. I'll hand-revise label identifications if something proves to be a new subspecies at a later date, for example. I like to keep the original label(s) as part of the specimen's history, so I'll just hand-write a correction rather than reprint the label.
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Post by wollastoni on Mar 27, 2016 21:43:05 GMT
This is one example of my label. I find very useful to have the species name on the same label than the rest. Too many labels can create a mess and you can damage specimens by trying to read them all.
I also keep old labels when I acquire spread specimens.
I have removed some pins from dried specimens and put another one, but I confirm it can be risky. I would not recommend doing it with rare specimens, relaxing them takes one night, damaging them one second.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2016 23:14:56 GMT
To all our members. I am in the process of rearranging my collection. One of the first things I want to do is to design new label style. I am thinking to include all data including specimens name on one label as I found out having two or three labels on one pin make them unreadable without removing them which cause loosed holes or making new holes in them. Another issue is the placement of the specimen on the pin. I used to place them about 7mm down the pin head, but i don't like the look of them anymore as they seem to be too high from the pinning bottom and too close to the glass. I started not long time ago place them about 12mm from the pin head. I only have in my collection some 1200+ specimens so i would have to reset all of them as I want to change also all black pins to stainless steal. Is there any way to change the pin without relaxing a specimen as some of them are nicely spread and besides changing a pin and the label the wings are in good arrangement. I would like to set all new standards before I will start to spread my all new specimens 800+ collected in South east Asia so i can avoid double work. I am all excited to hear from all of members what is there standards about specimen placement and labels format. Any samples of labels, photos or excel formats, templates would be very welcomed to see. Thank you for your participation in my rearrangements. Paul Paul, I have the reverse problem. For years I used British boards and continental pins. The result was about 20-25mm of pin above the specimen. I have moved several hundreds of specimens UP the pin using gin. I have gin in a small hypodermic syringe and trickle a drop down the pin shaft and wait. After a few minutes the pin has often loosened enough to allow re-positioning. If the specimen is stubborn it may take further drops and waiting to get the desired loosening. I have found that at least 95% can be manipulated up or down the pin using this method... So far I have only irreparably broken 2 specimens, both small noctuids... There is only one problem, and that being the strong urge to drink the gin during waiting periods. I have not yet found a way to stop this happening... Cheers, Barry
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Post by Paul K on Mar 27, 2016 23:39:58 GMT
To all our members. I am in the process of rearranging my collection. One of the first things I want to do is to design new label style. I am thinking to include all data including specimens name on one label as I found out having two or three labels on one pin make them unreadable without removing them which cause loosed holes or making new holes in them. Another issue is the placement of the specimen on the pin. I used to place them about 7mm down the pin head, but i don't like the look of them anymore as they seem to be too high from the pinning bottom and too close to the glass. I started not long time ago place them about 12mm from the pin head. I only have in my collection some 1200+ specimens so i would have to reset all of them as I want to change also all black pins to stainless steal. Is there any way to change the pin without relaxing a specimen as some of them are nicely spread and besides changing a pin and the label the wings are in good arrangement. I would like to set all new standards before I will start to spread my all new specimens 800+ collected in South east Asia so i can avoid double work. I am all excited to hear from all of members what is there standards about specimen placement and labels format. Any samples of labels, photos or excel formats, templates would be very welcomed to see. Thank you for your participation in my rearrangements. Paul Paul, I have the reverse problem. For years I used British boards and continental pins. The result was about 20-25mm of pin above the specimen. I have moved several hundreds of specimens UP the pin using gin. I have gin in a small hypodermic syringe and trickle a drop down the pin shaft and wait. After a few minutes the pin has often loosened enough to allow re-positioning. If the specimen is stubborn it may take further drops and waiting to get the desired loosening. I have found that at least 95% can be manipulated up or down the pin using this method... So far I have only irreparably broken 2 specimens, both small noctuids... There is only one problem, and that being the strong urge to drink the gin during waiting periods. I have not yet found a way to stop this happening... Cheers, Barry Thanks a lot Barry I will definitely try this method on one of my less important specimen first. I don't really like gin so I should be safe though I just can not have tonic soda at my disposal at the same time Paul
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