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Post by nomad on Nov 10, 2016 12:14:17 GMT
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Post by timmsyrj on Nov 10, 2016 13:19:13 GMT
Check the data on that female that sold for $455, July this year, excellent protection work going on!!
Rich
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Post by nomad on Nov 10, 2016 13:28:47 GMT
Makes quite a mockery of its Cites One status.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 10, 2017 18:45:36 GMT
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Post by exoticimports on Jul 11, 2017 12:42:53 GMT
Is the seller Russian, or is this USFWS bait?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2017 13:42:37 GMT
Unless you want an experience similar to mine 18 months ago I advise you steer well clear, it's just not worth it.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 11, 2017 14:45:31 GMT
Is the seller Russian, or is this USFWS bait?
It doesn't really matter, although I doubt that it's the latter. Personally I think that anyone outside Russia bidding on this specimen must be either mad or stupid. Adam.
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Post by nomad on Jul 11, 2017 18:15:20 GMT
Where there is a demand, there will always be an illegal supply. Sadly some are quite prepared to take the risk. I remember quite recently about a collector moaning on social media about getting caught importing a pair from Russia to the US, he was quite upset, he thought they came with *permits*, Cites One? Well that's what he said after the customs opened his package, now he had lost his money and the big butterflies and was not looking forward to a big fine.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 11, 2017 21:16:47 GMT
People don't seem to realise that before importing CITES 1 listed species the importer needs to obtain an IMPORT PERMIT issued by his (the destination) country prior to shipment, as well as an EXPORT PERMIT issued by the country they are sent from.
Similarly, for the seller to have LEGALLY imported the specimen(s) in the first place he needs to have obtained a Russian CITES import permit prior to importation from PNG. A piece of paper issued in PNG has absolutely no value when sending CITES 1 specimen(s) from Russia to a third country.
Adam.
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Post by nomad on Jul 12, 2017 7:31:12 GMT
There are no permits issued for CITES 1 species that is why they are placed there. Only CITES 2 can be legally imported with permits. ? No legal permits are issued for the sale of O. alexandrae. Otherwise people would be trading in Giant Pandas if they could. Only permits I believe are available for old pairs of O. alexandrae sold at auction that have good provenance, Meek pairs etc. I keep seeing the CITES 1 illegal O. alexandrae being freely advertised on the banner header of the forum appear, which is really not good At all.
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Post by Admin on Jul 12, 2017 7:49:46 GMT
I keep seeing his CITES 1 illegal birdwings being freely advertised on the banner header of the forum appear, which is really not good At all. Those banners are automatic, I cannot filter specimens one by one unfortunately. I have removed some keyword for it not to appear anymore, but many specimens will miss now. The good thing to do when you see such specimens is to report it to ebay. Ebay having some legal risk too, they will be happy to know it and remove it.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jul 12, 2017 9:09:58 GMT
There are no permits issued for CITES 1 species that is why they are placed there. Actually there ARE permits for CITES 1 species, but they are in reality almost impossible to obtain. Adam.
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Post by nomad on Jul 12, 2017 10:11:44 GMT
The main thing is, those Russian O.alexandrae do not have permits, the only thing that fuels an illegal trade is greed and nothing to do with entomology at all.
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Post by Paul K on Jul 12, 2017 13:25:50 GMT
Please don't forget that in case of rare birdwings legal and illegal trade help them to survive. O.alexandrae is farmed, therefor it is still there as somebody still cares to take care of last puch of forest to make some cash, little of it of course. Saying that I don't approve illegal trade, but regulations in laws should be reviewed and degraded this species to CITES ll
Paul
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Post by nomad on Jul 12, 2017 14:32:37 GMT
I quite agree that it is the silly ass of a law that will probably see the extinction of O. alexandrae. Put it on Cities two and farm the butterfly legally before its too late. All CITES 1 is doing is providing big money for racketeers. In truth the actual villagers where these specimens are being obtained, see very little of the enormous cash sums these butterflies reach on ebay and elsewhere.
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