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Post by felixb on Apr 15, 2015 8:35:52 GMT
Hi Guys,
can anyone give me some advice of some achievable hostplants for the minori subspecies? Al I can get is some Lomatium dissectum but I just noticed it is not suitable... can I try other plants? where can I get some seeds of the typical hostplants? maybe someone here can sell some to me.
my best regards
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Post by EarlyStages on Apr 16, 2015 6:12:38 GMT
Hi Felix, I can advise "what" . . . research.uvu.edu/Whaley/food.shtm. . . but not specifically "where"; I've seen Lomatium offered by several Western nurseries in the past, so certainly try Google. I reared P. i. minori, plus three other ssp., many years ago on wild-collected Cymopterus terebinthinus var. californicus (now dead), and recall reading that Foeniculum vulgare is acceptable to at least some hatchlings. Also of hopeful interest – www.utahlepsociety.org/indra3.html. Good luck! Keith |
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Post by wollastoni on Apr 16, 2015 7:13:50 GMT
Good luck Felix ! Please keep us posted and show us some pictures of your rearing !  |
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Post by mygos on Apr 16, 2015 8:39:29 GMT
I checked in SANTELO A., Répertoire des plantes-hôtes de substitution des chenilles du monde, 2 vol., 2004, OPIE, 2° édition !
The 2 host plants mentionned for P. i. minori are : Lomatium easwoodae, and Lomatium grayi ...
A+, Michel
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Post by felixb on Apr 16, 2015 10:43:41 GMT
Dear Keith, Olivier and Michel,
thank you for your kind replies.
I looked for several plants from the links, but can´t find anything here.
It is interesting to know that Foeniculum vulgare could work for some hatchlings.at least, I will try to offer some typical foodplants of machaon group species. its al about the aroma of the leafes, so maybe it works. I will keep you updated .
keith,as you mentioned you already bred several indra ssp., how should I rear the pupae for best hatching results?
best regards from germany
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Post by fvscarvalho on Apr 16, 2015 10:44:09 GMT
The following food plantas are cited for P. indra: Cymopterus purpurea, C. panamintensis var. acutifolius, Aletes acaulis, Harbouria trachypleura, Lomatium lucidum, L. parryi, L. nuttallii, L. eastwoodi, L. marginatum, L. scabrum, L. latilobum, L. junceum, L. grayi, L. triternatum, L. dissectum var. multifidum, Pteryxia hendersonii, P. petraea, P. terebinthina var. californica, Tauschia parishii, T. arguta, less Thamnosma montana, Musineon tenuifolium. Source: www.nic.funet.fi/.../papi.../papilioninae/papilio/... |
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Post by fvscarvalho on Apr 16, 2015 10:48:21 GMT
Many Papilios caterpillars feed on plants of the Rutaceae family so, if the plants I posted before are not available, I would try leaves of orange tree, lemon tree, etc. and Ruta sp.
Good luck
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 16, 2015 14:57:06 GMT
The problem here is probably more one of a suitable host plant that the female is prepared to lay eggs on, as I think that Felix has pupae and wants to pair the adults that emerge and rear a further generation.
It is often much more difficult to persuade a female to lay eggs on an alternative potential foodplant than it is to persuade newly hatched larvae to accept a substitute.
Rearing larvae of machaon group species on most Rutaceae does not work well at all. I once tried to feed freshly hatched machaon larvae on Citrus leaves, and they refused to more than nibble them before dying. Yes, they will eat Ruta, and indeed it is a natural foodplant for machaon in the Mediterranean area, but at the same time machaon will happily lay eggs on Zanthoxylum in a flight cage but the larvae die by second instar. I also found that machaon will lay eggs on Cosmos (Asteraceae), and the larvae will eat it in early instars but die after a while. It is worth noting that certain Asteraceae are natural foodplants of machaon in Central and East Asia and in America, but only some plants are actually suitable hosts for the larvae to go all the way through to pupation.
Adam.
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Post by felixb on Apr 16, 2015 18:51:14 GMT
I also have had different machaon group species that did not lay on alternative hosts, even if the cats would feed on it.
I will definetely post the results here. As I do not have any experience in breeding indra species, it will be the first competition to get a good and healthy couple.
I know from some butterfly houses, that papilio females lay theire eggs on nectar plants, if the natural host is not available. maybe I will have some luck and the females will also lay some eggs right in the cage, even without hostplants.
Felix
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Post by EarlyStages on Apr 16, 2015 21:10:27 GMT
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joee30
New Aurelian
Posts: 31
Country: U.S.A.
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Post by joee30 on Feb 29, 2016 19:53:05 GMT
Being that Papilio indra ssp's are found only in certain habitat types, I can definitely understand where Adam is coming from. Indra swallowtails are more specialized for those certain carrot family plants like Cymopterus, Pterexia,ECT. Not sure about P. indra minori, but maybe trying fennel might work, or Queen Anne's Lace if it is there.
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Post by felixb on Mar 2, 2016 17:05:16 GMT
Hi!
A bit late, but I want to publish the summary of the breeding experiment. The handpairing was easy to do, similar to machaon species, but the female refused to lay eggs.I offered different stuff like ruta graveolens, foeniculum vulgare and ctrus species and provided good nutrition and regular daylight, but it did not work out. The male was also easily paired with a machaon female but I could not achieve fertle eggs.
If I can ever get my hand on this species again I will try it a second time.
best regards
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