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Post by Maksim khorunov on Jun 5, 2018 16:21:13 GMT
Friends! I wanted to wait for the repair of the camera but did not wait, took a photo as it turned out. I recently got this female Papilio machaon from Iran, Kurdistan, near Gewelle village 35°42'N 46°22'E 1900 m., alt. 19.05.2017. As I understand it, there should be a subspecies of syriacus in that place, but I have my doubts about this sample. This is the spring generation of a very large size, with a wingspan of 83 millimeters. Unlike syriacus from Armenia has a wide and elongated in the direction of the wings, above the red anal eye bottom of the right wing of a black-plated triangle with the point up (which is absent in Papilio machaon in principle) on the left wing is missing the coating but noticeable orange hue which is hard to see because of the photo quality. Just orange pigments slightly blurred in the two near to the red anal eye of the moons. Here is such an incredibly large curious aberration. Given the high ability to migrate Papilio machaon, can we assume that it is possible that this is not a subspecies of syriacus and some kind of mixing of different groups of races or just a teratological form? On the right of the photo I am making for comparison Papilio machaon syriacus summer generation from Armenia. Attachments:
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Post by Maksim khorunov on Jun 5, 2018 16:22:38 GMT
For comparison. Attachments:
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Post by Maksim khorunov on Jun 5, 2018 16:23:24 GMT
Pigments. Attachments:
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 5, 2018 21:43:31 GMT
This seems to be an aberrant specimen of syriacus, probably caused by environmental factors. Unusual specimens like this can be interesting. I doubt that another subspecies could be involved at that location, it's rather far for muetingi, which would be the closest, even if it wanted to cross inhospitable terrain.
Adam.
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Post by Maksim khorunov on Jun 5, 2018 23:40:50 GMT
So I correctly put it to P. m. syriacus. Yes, it is quite possible that the causes of teratological changes were environmental factors. In the cool rainy years, I repeatedly met Argynnis paphia with different shapes of wings and changing the pattern. Adam, and such a subspecies as P. m. weidenhofferi Seyer, 1976 Kopet-Dagh is now synonymous or is it valid?
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 6, 2018 8:51:09 GMT
Turkmenistan is of course the other side of the range of ssp. muetingi, about twice the distance from your specimen pictured above. Currently I treat weidenhofferi as perhaps a synonym of centralis with a note to check it. The types seem close to centralis but a little different. Seyer treated weidenhofferi as part of his centralis subgroup. Do you have any specimens of weidenhofferi? When your camera is repaired I would like to see some photos if you do have them.
Adam.
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Post by Maksim khorunov on Jun 6, 2018 10:59:50 GMT
Unfortunately I have never even seen the subtype of weidenhofferi. I know that many specialists do not recognize him. They think that this is the spring generation of ssp. centralis on which the Kopetdag mountains were described by a subspecies of weidenhofferi. I have only a photo centralis from two different places. But alas, this is not spring but summer generation. Just in case I attach the photo. If someone has pictures of weidenhofferi or spring centralis, add, compare. Link to high-quality photos: piccy.info/view3/12264991/a4161227e6f3487645b8362c52a06521/orig/ Attachments:
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 6, 2018 15:12:35 GMT
Here are poor quality photos of my draws of centralis group with data included: and here are close-ups of the 2 specimens of 1st generation centralis from Fergana. They are very poor quality, but good enough to see phenotype: Adam. PS. I edited them and they display now
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Post by Maksim khorunov on Jun 6, 2018 15:58:40 GMT
No, Adam,no pictures.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 6, 2018 16:02:46 GMT
I hope you and everyone else can open them now. Adam.
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Post by Paul K on Jun 6, 2018 16:08:55 GMT
I can open pictures by right click and open in new window, redirect to Imgur. Paul Never mind, Adam fixed them.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 6, 2018 16:16:01 GMT
Originally I used the "Insert Image" option, which didn't display the images but I could open them by a right click, as Paul said. Strange.
Adam.
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Post by Maksim khorunov on Jun 7, 2018 14:05:19 GMT
All good time! Adam, Your series group centralis is just gorgeous! Some samples are very rare and interesting shape is just wonderful that you got them. NE of Chimion's Fergana involves a change of two forms, f. sphiroides + f. bimaculatus. Quality samples Tabakchi Mts., SW Tadjikistan is a bright f. fenestrella is usually found 3-4 % of the total weight. Adam, in my opinion, you have P. m. centralis is a subspecies of P. m. oreinus. They differ sharply from centralis both visually and coincide with the data of the geographical area. I especially liked the samples collected just above the range, Kazarman. Very interesting samples from Afghanistan, in my opinion they should be paid special attention. Well, China and Mongolia is rather possible to consider as pendjabensis gruppe. They are even visually different from the centralis gruppe. What do You think?
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Post by Adam Cotton on Jun 7, 2018 17:42:58 GMT
I am glad you found my specimens interesting. Hopefully other members and guests (who can't post, but maybe they might join as a result) will also find them of interest.
Indeed a number of the specimens are referable to oreinus, and I marked one with data from what must be near the type locality of oreinus, which is Naryn. However, I suspect that oreinus is really only centralis from localities which only have a single generation per year.
I have another series of Mongolian machaon from a little further northeast (approx. 46°21'N, 92°05'E, altitude 2800m.) which are related to orientis, but I really don't think it is possible that the series in the drawer with the centralis group specimens could possibly be closely related to pendjabensis which comes from south of the Himalayas in lowland Pakistan (type locality: "Dehra-Dun, Pendjab, Allahabad"). These seem related to centralis to me, and the approximate coordinates for these are 45°44'N, 91°05'E, altitude 1300m.
One possibility that occurred to me concerning SE Kazakhstan machaon is that it could be related to ssp. taigensis (type locality: Omsk). I can imagine that even if machaon does not cross the central Kazakh plains it can probably reach SE Kazakhstan via the mountains round the eastern side of the border of Kazakhstan. I have a series of 4 specimens from Karatal river, 1500m., Monrak Mts, E Kazakhstan 26-30 May 2007 and a female from near Salair, 700m., Kemerovo 21 May 2000 in the next drawer. I will try to post a photo of them later.
Adam.
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Post by Maksim khorunov on Jun 7, 2018 18:39:58 GMT
I apologize pendjabensis typo. I wanted to write P. m. baijangensis Huang & Murayama, 1992
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