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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 15, 2018 13:47:59 GMT
Maybe Adam could/would be kind to share some of his knowledge of this species? Sorry I didn't reply to this earlier. Very little is known about the early stages of benguetana Joicey & Talbot, 1923 although Igarashi (1979) illustrated a 1st instar larva, which seems a little different to P. xuthus, and DNA comparison has not yet been published as far as I can see. Presumably Igarashi was unable to rear the larva, since only the 1st instar was painted by him. There is a paragraph of discussion in the text volume, but I am unable to read Japanese. I will try to find out what it says and get back on that if there is any interesting information contained there. Papilio benguetana is clearly closely related to P. xuthus, and is probably worthy of specific status due to the distinct wingshape and differences in pattern, although I have not found any comparison of genitalia. It has clearly been isolated from the common ancestor of it and xuthus for a long period of time. It is significant that P. xuthus is not differentiated into subspecies elsewhere across Asia ( koxinga from Taiwan is probably not a valid subspecies). Adam.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Apr 18, 2018 16:52:50 GMT
Jan, Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I checked Page & Treadaway (2004) and they state: "Papilio xuthus (Linnaeus, 1758) Distribution: Japan, E. China, Taiwan, Guam, Luzon. Map 45. Tsukada & Nishiyama (1982) report that hybrids can be readily obtained between xuthus and beneguetanus and that they are fertile. In view of the lack of morphological differences in the genitalia of both sexes (Figs 40,41) and the apparent close genetic relationship, we treat this organism as a subspecies of xuthus (Munroe, 1961) Papilio xuthus benguetanus (Joicey & Talbot, 1923) (Page & Treadaway, 2003b: Pl. 43, figs 1-4) Holoype male: Benguet District, N. Luzon. In the British Museum (Nat. Hist.). Philippines distribution: N. Luzon, Mt Santo Thomas, Mt Paoai, Mt Benguet, north to Bontoc. Found in open areas on the high mountains (up to 2500 m), usually in March to June. Both sexes exhibit hill topping, with the males flying more vigorously in patrolling territories." This led me to checking the work of Shigeru Ae, and indeed I found in his 1979 paper (Systematic Entomology, 4: 1-16) that he crossed xuthus with benguetana (Table 1, p. 4). However on p. 9 he states: "(iv) The Papilio xuthus group. P.xuthus of East Asia and P.benguetana Joicey & Talbot, found only in Northern Luzon (Philippines), form one closely related species group." Ae did not synonymise them at species level, but Page & Treadaway did. Ae gave the hybrids a fertility value of 50, which suggests to me that they are not fully compatible, as Ae's definition was: "Fertility of F1 hybrids. Attempts have been made to obtain F2 or cousin matings and also all possible backcrosses to the parent forms. The ease with which an F2 is obtained is taken as an indication of the closeness of the relationship. The data have again been divided into five categories: F1 hybrids of both sexes sterile = 0. One or both sexes has lowered fertility = 25. One sex has good (perfect or almost perfect) fertility and other sex sterile = 50. One sex has good (perfect or almost perfect) fertility and the other sex has reduced fertility or both sexes have somewhat reduced fertility = 75. Both sexes have good (perfect or almost perfect) fertility = 100." If they are truly conspecific they should have a fertility rating of 100, but in this case it was only 50. As a result I do not agree with Page & Treadaway (2004), but would prefer to regard them as sister species that have differentiated from a common ancestor sufficiently to treat them as separate species. Since Page & Treadaway (2004) only cited Tsukada & Nishiyama (1982) I assume that they didn't actually check the details of the original research, and if they had done so they would have seen that Ae concluded they were not 100% compatible. It took me a total of 5 minutes to get from Page & Treadaway (2004) via Tsukada & Nishiyama (1982) to Ae (1979), not exactly difficult if you know where to look. With regard to benguetana vs benguetanus, the original description by Joicey & Talbot used the name benguetana but some authors have changed that to - us to conform with gender agreement under the ICZN Code. However, most Lepidopterists prefer not to follow gender agreement, and use original spellings for names. I also recommend using benguetana for the name of this species. Adam.
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wolf
Aurelian
Posts: 132
Country: Norway
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Post by wolf on Apr 18, 2018 19:05:40 GMT
Let me help you Jan, you linked my picture! ;P
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Post by nomad on May 4, 2018 19:50:55 GMT
Jan, join another free hosting company such as imgur/flicker to post images.
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Post by jmg on May 5, 2018 9:16:49 GMT
Here are P. maacki and P. xuthus from Dalnegorsk (Дальнегорск) in the Primorye Krai (Ussuri, Siberia). The xuthus range is very huge even to the North (44°34' N).
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Post by Adam Cotton on May 5, 2018 12:01:32 GMT
It is interesting that the distribution of P. xuthus is limited by daylength and its need for a cold enough winter to break diapause. The southernmost locality for this species is Hagiang, the northernmost province of Vietnam which has a more pronounced winter than elsewhere in Vietnam.
I bred xuthus here in Chiang Mai from overwintering pupae ex Japan. It was very interesting that because the daylength is less than 14 hours all year round the offspring all go into diapause and I never obtained summer form specimens even at the right time of year. All the pupae refused to hatch without spending a couple of months in the fridge. They did not hatch naturally after our 'winter' as it was not cold enough for long enough to break diapause. I suspect that if I had used artificial lighting to prolong daylength I could have obtained summer form specimens. The same also happened with P. dehaanii from Japan, but interestingly not when I bred P. machaon hippocrates which did hatch without cold treatment and did produce the striking summer form specimens as well.
Adam.
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Post by exoticimports on May 5, 2018 12:25:23 GMT
Adam if xuthus needs a cold dipause why is it so common in Hawaii?
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Post by Paul K on May 5, 2018 13:50:58 GMT
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Post by jmg on May 5, 2018 13:54:23 GMT
Many thanks, Adam, for these very interesting informations !
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Post by Adam Cotton on May 5, 2018 13:56:39 GMT
I think that it needs at least one month or more at low night time temperatures below 10C. Here we get that for maybe a week each year.
Adam.
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Post by deliasfanatic on May 5, 2018 16:00:17 GMT
I believe it's found in Guam and some other nearby small islands, which have no high elevation. Perhaps it can adapt to year-round warmth in some populations?
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Post by Adam Cotton on May 5, 2018 17:33:07 GMT
I believe it's found in Guam and some other nearby small islands, which have no high elevation. Perhaps it can adapt to year-round warmth in some populations? That could also be an explanation why it does well on Hawaii. Tyler et al (1994) state that the Hawaii population was imported in 1971 either from Japan or Guam. If the Guam population has evolved to be adapted to the warm weather and the Hawaii population originated from Guam, that might be why it has done so well on Hawaii. Alternatively it could be a function of daylength rather than temperature, because I remember Tom Kral told me that Hawaii xuthus is continually summer form. He said it doesn't produce spring form specimens. If that's true that means it never actually goes into diapause there. Personally I find that rather doubtful, but I suppose it's possible. Adam.
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Post by Paul K on May 21, 2018 2:42:42 GMT
Beautiful species indeed. In Thailand there is another subspecies eurysthenes which inhabits peninsular part only and I haven’t found it yet there.
Paul
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wolf
Aurelian
Posts: 132
Country: Norway
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Post by wolf on Sept 24, 2018 17:37:01 GMT
Terinos romeo pair. Endemic to Panay Island in The Philippines. Data: Makato area, April 2015
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wolf
Aurelian
Posts: 132
Country: Norway
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Post by wolf on Sept 24, 2018 18:17:33 GMT
Austrozephyrus reginae pair from Palawan in The Philippines. Data: Brooke's point, Mt. Matalingahan. April-June 2016.
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