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Post by trehopr1 on Oct 31, 2017 0:58:13 GMT
Just wondering if this is the proper species name I was given for this pair of Papilio. I did not buy them as they were already sold and being shipped away (which is why they were put in a riker). If the species is correct than where is it found and is it at all unique or just common fare....  |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Oct 31, 2017 12:22:48 GMT
This identification is probably incorrect. Papilio americus is the subspecies of P. polyxenes from Colombia, and if you look at the red anal spot on the hindwing tornus it should have a central black spot not connected to the margin, unlike the two specimens in the Riker mount. These could be a form of P. machaon bairdii or may be hybrids.
Is the seller of these Mr. Kondor? He always likes to sell specimens in Riker mounts, but data may sometimes be suspect.
Adam.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Oct 31, 2017 13:53:58 GMT
Here is a snapshot photo of my P. polyxenes americus from Colombia to compare with the pair in the Riker mount:  One of my specimens unusually does have a link between the black spot and the margin, but the spot is central and rounded. The wing shape of the pair posted by trehopr1 is also quite different to my specimens. Adam. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 15:44:47 GMT
"Is the seller of these Mr. Kondor? He always likes to sell specimens in Riker mounts, but data may sometimes be suspect"
And I suspect you are being rather kind there Mr Cotton, I would phrase the data situation rather differently.
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 31, 2017 16:39:55 GMT
"Is the seller of these Mr. Kondor? He always likes to sell specimens in Riker mounts, but data may sometimes be suspect"
And I suspect you are being rather kind there Mr Cotton, I would phrase the data situation rather differently. Haha ! Me too !  Mr. Kondor is the American Li Jingke ... |
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Post by Adam Cotton on Oct 31, 2017 16:42:47 GMT
I was being diplomatic, and didn't want to allow the possibility of any legal claims against the ICF. It's probably best not to say much more about this particular issue.
Adam.
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Post by wollastoni on Oct 31, 2017 17:04:06 GMT
I was being diplomatic, and didn't want to allow the possibility of any legal claims against the ICF. It's probably best not to say much more about this particular issue. People on the ICF speaks in their name : the ICF is not responsible of their words against or for one seller. ICF is responsible to ensure the seller a possilibility to answer the messages. ICF is responsible to delete insults or illegal stuff that are posted. If a comment is proved to be "illegal", I would be happy to delete it. Like on Facebook for example. You can write what you want there but YOU are responsible of what you have written, not facebook. Mark Zuckerberg would be jailed for 1000 lives if he was responsible of all the stupid and wrong things said on facebook. Same here. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 18:33:38 GMT
Does that mean nobody wants to buy my genuine Ornithoptera priamus from South Yorkshire?  |
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Post by trehopr1 on Oct 31, 2017 18:47:23 GMT
Thank you very much Adam for your species (det.) on the posted photo ! The differences cited clearly makes the pair I photographed something else. I really appreciate your time and clarity of thought. You are also very much correct on who the seller is.
I honestly cannot say anything about the topic of suspect data or any reputation. I can only say that my experiences with him have always been pleasant, straightforward, and good. When I have visited him I have always been given un-fettered access to whatever new collection purchase he has made. He purchases old collections he finds appealing. He then puts a call out to all his serious "old school" collectors (such as myself) and we curry-comb the collection for all it's worth. Getting there A.S.A.P is most important as you wait too long and what you have are the leavings (which is not saying much).
The leavings are then pushed off their pins and into rikers for sales to the regular folks. I'd probably do things the same way if I could afford to buy old collections, cherry-pick them, and then sell off the remains. The vast majority of stuff that I've ever seen in these old collections nearly always has data on the specimens pins. Maybe 10-15 % of any collection has no data present on the specimens (or vague data) such as only country etc. Perhaps, the issue of proper data is only as good as what he has available to him. I'm not making excuses; I'm only saying that some label data can be hard to read or discern if handwritten and some things simply have no data at all.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Oct 31, 2017 18:51:58 GMT
Dunc said "Does that mean nobody wants to buy my genuine Ornithoptera priamus from South Yorkshire?"
Does it come with a CITES certificate?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 19:15:05 GMT
Does it come with a CITES certificate?
Yes they do and you can trust that the certificate is as genuine as the data.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Oct 31, 2017 19:18:42 GMT
Yes they do and you can trust that the certificate is as genuine as the data. Can you quote a price per hundred wild caught specimens from the jungles of Barnsley?  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 19:25:03 GMT
Special offer $2000 each, a very local and distinct ssp is barnsleyensis owing to the darker colour, camouflage as our local pit tips are rather dark, payment up front please.
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Post by Adam Cotton on Oct 31, 2017 19:56:32 GMT
It's lucky I don't collect birdwings otherwise I might just be tempted to buy 500 of those.
Adam.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 20:30:19 GMT
Spread the word, I also have a rare blue form for $5000, not light treated, honest.
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