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Post by mygos on Dec 31, 2014 14:55:18 GMT
The long expected "Ornithoptera" book by Gilles DESLISLE & Jean-Pierre SCLAVO should be released in march 2015 !
1642 Pages in 2 tomes: Tome I (page 1-813); Tome II (page 814-1642)
9225 Figures
139 Maps
11 Keys
1 Genus (Ornithoptera)
4 Subgenera (Schoenbergia, Straatmana, Ornithoptera and
Aetheoptera)
11 Species
27 Subspecies
57 Local forms, + 12 (?)
235 Forms specific to 61 taxa (of which 75 nov.)
12 Biform specimens
156 Oddities
44 Gynandromorph specimens: 12 perfect bilateral, 6 imperfect
bilateral, 9 mosaic morphology with mosaic abdomen, 4 mosaic
morphology with male abdomen, 4 mosaic morphology with
female abdomen and 9 unconventional.
52 Combinations of hybrids (187 specimens)
Data on specimens mainly based after the Jean-Pierre Sclavo and the Insectarium de Montréal (Deslisle Bequest) collections, but also from 50 of the most important reference collections of Birdwing Butterflies in the world.
Male and female are illustrated life size, upper side and underside in full color, with their range of individual variations.
Furthermore, superb imago’s photographs in the wild, early stages, host-plants and environment.
Man and Birdwing Butterflies (Historic Part)
The most complete reference book about Birdwings Butterflies to date.
A+, Michel
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Post by wollastoni on Dec 31, 2014 15:01:10 GMT
Will be a very nice present for 2015 ! You can find it on ABEBOOKS
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Post by Adam Cotton on Dec 31, 2014 16:03:23 GMT
Michel, I was about to post the news I received from Gilles Deslisle here, but you beat me to it (not that it's a race ) Something to look forward to in 2015. Happy New Year everyone. Adam.
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Post by mygos on Dec 31, 2014 18:25:25 GMT
Michel, I was about to post the news I received from Gilles Deslisle here, but you beat me to it (not that it's a race ) Something to look forward to in 2015. Happy New Year everyone. Adam. Sorry I was a bit quick for you Adam Here is the layout of the front cover : A+, Michel
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Post by nomad on Dec 31, 2014 20:40:08 GMT
This extensive work looks a must for Ornithoptera enthusiasts. Any idea of the price. Will both the volumes be published together.
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Post by mygos on Dec 31, 2014 21:00:49 GMT
Yes Peter, both volumes will be published together, but at the moment no idea about the price !
A+, Michel
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payam1982
New Aurelian
Posts: 9
Country: Iran
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Post by payam1982 on Jan 30, 2015 10:04:18 GMT
I must confess that I really wonder when a new book on the Birdwing butterflies being published . All of these books including same things : Beautiful colour plates , distribution maps , " morphological " identification keys , ( definitely ) new and nonsense subspecies and a bunch of " subjective " taxonomic arrangements . Now I want to ask this question : How many more of such books which solve " no taxonomical problems " do we need ? After publication of a great number of books on the Birdwing butterflies , the " main problem " is still unsolved and seems all these authors are collectors who enjoy collecting Birdwings in their biotopes , and not Academic Lepidopterologists . The " main problem " , is doing a huge number of " molecular studies " on these species and all of their subspecies and populations . Regarding what Michel`s mentioned , the book includes " 12 local forms " . My question is what exactly is a local form ? Do we still use this term in real taxonomy ? Of course not . In classic taxonomy , we v`e defined so many kinds of forms ( f. localis , f. alta , f. geographica , f. vernalis , f. aestivalis , f. autumnalis etc. ) which now a days we know they r`e nothing further than " populations " , " variations " and " broods " . The one and only " real form " as a " biological fact " , is a specimen which flies with the main population , has different morphology and can be found with an almost constant percent ( white females in genus Colias are good examples ) . We still don`t know what is their basement ( recessive genes , epigenetical factors or ecological ones ) and for each species the basements must be investigated in molecular level . Based on all I mentioned , the only useful publications on the Birdwing butterflies shall be molecular investigations of at least 3 mitochondrial and 4 - 7 nuclear genes , for all species and subspecies of the genus Ornithoptera , Troides and Trogonoptera . Finally , we can add the " clustered " data about their morphology , anatomy , ecology , ethology , biotope etc. , because only " clustered data " separates " real and meaningful characters " from " meaningless ones " . As phylogeny`s taught us , " what we can see with our eyes might be an absolutely meaningless character , and what we can`t see , the meaningful and constant one " . We should always have this in our minds that after Pr. Richard Dawkins`s " selfish gene " theory , we v`e learned that the main part of each living creature is its genotype , and phenotype is only a host , a cattle to transfer the genes to the next generation . That`s why we find the most constant characters of each taxon , in its genome .
With my most respects and regards to all ; Payàm .
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Post by wollastoni on Jan 30, 2015 11:08:20 GMT
Payàm,
Let's not just condemn a book that is not yet published. This book isn't adding new fake subspecies.
"Local forms" can be very interesting to study as they can reflect an evolution path (even if those forms are not different enough to deserve a ssp status) and a local adaptation. They can also help us understand the diffusion history of a species.
I work a lot on human phenotype with my job. Well, we are all the same species and subspecies, but I can tell you that some local phenotypes are really interesting to study. They are the results of local adaptations to climate/environment, of population movements and mixities among centuries, and so on.
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Post by mygos on Jan 30, 2015 12:46:20 GMT
Payam, I think that the best solution after the comments you made is to publish your own revision of Ornithoptera which will comply with what you want and need You have to appreciate that often an author publish a book for himself rather than for the entomological community, and therefore correspond to their own taste and ego ! A+, Michel
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Post by timmsyrj on Jan 30, 2015 14:05:06 GMT
It does look an amazing book, loads of work has obviously gone into this and it certainly won't be cheap, you could probably get those 3 bilateral gynandromorphs on the front cover for less (interesting they are all leftside male rightside female) but I think when you spend that amount of time, effort and personal out lay you deserve a little back.
I'm interested to know what the bottom right specimen is (goliath x meridionalis hybrid for a guess).
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payam1982
New Aurelian
Posts: 9
Country: Iran
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Post by payam1982 on Jan 30, 2015 16:24:09 GMT
Dear Olivier and Dear Michel :
- Here r`e some notes which I want to bring them into your attention :
1. We " must " follow the ICZN rules ; also the " updated taxonomic terminology " ; based on these , something in the name of " form localis " is quite invalid and we don`t use them anymore .
2. Only the genome sequence can tell us " what " exactly can be a population which is morphologically different than others ; sometimes it can be a " bona. ssp. " and sometimes only a " population / clinal variation " ( a population can not be a " form " ; forms are minorities of a population which I mentioned them in my previous comment ) . Furthermore , even in " geographical isolation " we have " clinal variations " and the distribution pattern of Birdwings is the best example for this . Although they r`e distributed in separate islands but , we can`t say all of them necessarily are " subspecies " . In " Ornithoptera ( Schoenbergia ) goliath " , many subspecies have been described but , only few of them seem to be " good " , " well - defined " and " constantly characterized " ones : the nominotypical one , samson , procus , supremus and titan ( titan is " not " a form of supremus ! They are " peripatric subspecies with a contact zone and intermediates in the mentioned district ; if there r`e little number of specimens in " supremus " range which have no markings , they can`t be named " f. titan " , because the result shall be a homonymy ) .
3. My scientific field study is on the " Palearctic butterflies " and from the exotics , I v`e studied two groups very well : The subgenus " Achiilides " and the genus " Morpho " but , taxonomic principles are highly same for different groups ( although not all ) in butterflies and we can use them to give our approaches about them .
4. Human taxonomy is one of my favorite fields too Olivier , as you correctly mentioned " Homo sapiens " has no subspecies and even no " races " ( Templeton , 2013 [ please download the attachment ] ) and all we have in our populations , can not go further than " eco - morphosis " , " eco - clines " or " eco - types " ( ecotype and subspecies are quite different things in zoology ) .
5. Finally and as a good example for what I really mean , I can mention to cooperation between Dr. Niklas Wahlberg`s team in the field of molecular study on the family Nymphalidae , and Gian`s recent books on this family ( Nymphalidae Parts IV , V & VI ) . Gian was smart enough to use all results of Dr. Wahlberg`s papers and his consult for his new books , and give us a new taxonomic arrangement which is much more " objective " .
With all the best ; Payàm .
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Post by wollastoni on Jan 30, 2015 16:33:48 GMT
Yes Payàm, I think Michel and me know the ICZN rules about forms and so on. That wasn't my point.
My point is even if not recognized by the Code (and this is normal), some local forms are scientifically interesting to study for plenty of reasons.
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Post by cabintom on Jan 30, 2015 17:33:46 GMT
I believe "form" names (and the like) are useful much in the same way that common names are. For example, I can tell you that on July 6th, 2014, while in the village of Nebobongo, DRC, I caught a female Cymothoe caenis f. conformis, or I could tell you that I caught a female Cymothoe caenis that, oddly, very much resembled a male Cymothoe caenis, except that its marginal (and sub-marginal) markings, on both forewings and hindwings, were both less extensive and less defined, and unlike males, it featured markings in the forewing cells, but lacked the black veins of the hindwings. I could also go on to describe the ventral side of the insect, and point out the differences it has compared to other white forms of the female of this species. So, I guess my amateur opinion is that properly described forms within a species or subspecies can greatly facilitate the ease and clarity of communication. I just wish I knew the names of all the female C. caenis forms. Tom
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Post by nomad on Jan 30, 2015 18:55:58 GMT
I am sure those that buy this work, will enjoy this book for many years to come. Species, subspecies, geographical forms, aberrations and gynandromorphs are all very important to the student and collectors of Birdwings. Such is the interest in these butterflies that another lavish volume on the Birdwings, should and will be welcomed by the majority that truly enjoy these spectacular butterflies.
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Post by mygos on Jan 30, 2015 21:18:54 GMT
At least before getting crazy about it, let's wait for the book to be published before we can judge it !
A+, Michel
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