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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 12:03:29 GMT
p napi, Isle of Man and Ireland.
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Post by nomad on Dec 23, 2014 12:04:49 GMT
I think I have seen that case of the extinct Lycaena dispar dispar before.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 12:09:17 GMT
I wish they were mine. All the others are. If I had the patience to do it I could take pics of around 95% of the ssp you mentioned, they are in there somewhere.
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Post by wollastoni on Dec 23, 2014 13:04:24 GMT
Fantastic topic my friends. Yes the British fauna may appear dull to the unknowledgeable people but British islands are rich of many unique populations.
So sad so many species have disappeared though. I am afraid that the British scenario will now happen on the continent.
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Post by deliasfanatic on Dec 23, 2014 14:30:18 GMT
Excellent post and photos - very impressive!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 14:46:51 GMT
I should add that all the pictures of the yellow Irish forms of pieris napi are from bred stock ex L W Newman.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 14:50:49 GMT
extinct Aporia crataegi, last seen in England around 1920, these are from Kent 1890. Note on the bottom specimen the long abandoned way of setting the legs. Attachments:
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Post by nomad on Dec 23, 2014 15:23:50 GMT
Many thanks for adding the details dunc - looks like you have been busy on the British side, many of those would be very hard to obtain nowadays and at some considerable cost.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 15:38:23 GMT
In the circles I move in almost all of the people I know treasure their historic British specimens as the "cream" of their collections and value them higher than the rare exotic material as do I as they cannot be replaced, not for any amount of money so they would have to take pride of place in my eyes.
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Post by nomad on Dec 23, 2014 16:20:25 GMT
Here is a nice selection of Plebejus argus caernensis from the Great Ormes Head in North Wales in a private collection. A special feature is its dwarf size and extensive blue scaling in the female.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 16:25:43 GMT
Scottish specimens, much brighter than the English ssp.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 17:12:21 GMT
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Post by wollastoni on Dec 23, 2014 18:37:56 GMT
And so ? It is not because some variations are recent that they are not interesting to study.
The ssp status anyway is not so scientifical... Carabus auronitens looks different in nearly every wood of france. No ssp but many interesting questions about evolution, speciation and so on to study.
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Post by nomad on Dec 23, 2014 19:54:05 GMT
I was really writing about Island populations and others here that have evolved after being separated from others over a very long period of time and not those that have been isolated by human habitat destruction. Those authors which applied subspecfic names to British races of butterflies saw differences that seemed obvious to them. In my opinion, races would have to show good differences, not only their morphology but in certain areas of their biology for subspecific status. It is true that many rare butterflies in Britain have fragmented through habitat destruction but this does not seem to have given rise to any special differences in the short term. British museums are full of butterflies several hundred years old from lost colonies and these have been the subject of intense study for a long period of time.
While one lepidopterist may look at a butterfly from a given area and think it is just geographical variation, another worker may study a butterfly species in detail that includes its life history and believe there are grounds for subspecific status. I would agree different separate populations from geographical areas is a very worthwhile and valuable study.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 11:27:47 GMT
c tullia Witherslack moss and e epiphron Scotland.
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