The Oxford Birdwings and their data.

[nomad]

I think one would need to photograph a Troides of a similar colour in its natural habitat to prove or disprove whether this is a natural occurring aberration. However, those actually photographing Troides must be few indeed. Finding an extreme aberration of any butterfly can be a once in a lifetime experience or  you may never encounter one.  If these dark Troides aberrations were made, then one would expect then to turn up on ebay on a regular basis. Another factor to consider is why this type of Troides occurs in collections where there is no change to the other specimens. I prefer to keep an open mind.

[nomad]

19th century specimens of Troides Minos from the days of the British Raj .

Below. female S. Bombay, W. Ghats, 1000 feet, Kanara, Karwar, Capt " rains" 96-97 and presented by G. Keatings.



Below Male.  Cannamore, Malahar, India, Captured native collector 1896. Presented 1896 by A.G. Cardew & Mrs A.G.C.



Below female with the same data as above.



I wonder if this birdwing still flies in these areas today?

[nomad]

Females of Troides darsius.

Below. Ceylon about 1700ft, Kandy, Lady Horton Drive, Captured 02. 1908, presented by G.B. Longstaff.



Below. Ceylon, about 2000 feet, Kandy above reservoir. Captured 02, 1908. presented by G.B. Longstaff.



Dr G.B. Longstaff (1849-1921) wrote a book of his butterfly collecting travels. Butterfly Hunting in Many Lands: notes of a field naturalist. Fascinating account. Can be read online here.

archive.org/stream/b28083842#page/n7/mode/2up

[Adam Cotton]

Jul 29, 2017 7:47:19 GMT nomad said:

I wonder if this birdwing still flies in these areas today?

Quite possibly it still does, at least in the general area. Here in Thailand the very closely related T. aeacus (some authors consider it as conspecific with minos, and it is possible) can be found in parts of Bangkok and other cities in season.

Adam.

[Deleted]

How I love those old data labels.

[trehopr1]

I do appreciate the scientific importance of 19th thru early 20th century specimens; as well as those collected earlier. However, it seems that different collectors who may have personally caught them or bought them had their own "interpretation" of what proper or appropriate spreading method was.The collectors Keatings and Cardew seem to be like minded in setting their specimens particularly "low" so they almost appear to be resting on a leaf with outstretched wings. Longstaff's specimens are a touch higher but, a little low for me.
And yet, other collectors such as Meek, a few German collectors, and American collectors such as Holland and Strecker --- did beautiful spreading work. I know there were books out back then which described or pictured how the spread butterfly should look. But, some people seem to have skipped that section or refused to be told how something should look when prepared for a collection.
I have always personally had a desire to collect and spread my own specimens with the utmost aesthetic appeal. Whether it be a Lep or something else. If I look thru an old collection which is being parted out I look past all the rabble to spy the "spot- on" pieces present. I once used over 200 pins to properly set the legs of an enormous centipede which I captured. I suppose my thinking makes me a rather picky or fickle collector or one with high standards. I know I can't take it with me but, I will enjoy it all my lifetime and when it is left to someone or someplace they will remark: Damn, he did some fine work -- look at this stuff.

[deliasfanatic]

Styles change, and everyone has his or her own opinion as to what looks best. The specimens above are set in the style popular in the mid-19th century; look at old Wallace material, for example. I don't doubt that they considered it as properly done. Nowadays we don't generally think it's the ideal appearance, but there are different styles even today. I can pick out specimens set by Japanese collectors right away, for example; the hindwings are set very low compared to what most of us consider "ideal".

[Deleted]

For me personally I love the "old style" of setting, it really gives me a buzz when I see them or obtain them for my own collection and I wouldn't dream of touching them to reset them in the modern style. I recently acquired some old specimens of euphaedra francina and bebearia arcadius which were a mangled mess on a rusty pin, I couldn't possibly leave them as they were so I reset them on a new pin, necessary yes but on all other occasions I leave them as they are, they do retain a certain charm.

[nomad]

First of all. I would like to thank Jan for his detailed knowledge of the localities and observations on the status of T. Minos. As you can see, many of these early specimens, although netted are in very good condition. I would have to agree with Danny, this was the preferred and accepted setting style in the 19th century. Meek's fashion of setting birdwings high was very unusual for the period (Usually with O. alexandrae). I believe you can tell most 19th century specimens by their setting method, with their lower forewings. I quite agree with Duncan that the data is fascinating. Many thanks to Edward Bagnall Poulton for having all those labels transcribed, and placed at the specimen's side. I find it a nightmare trying to read hand written inked labels.

[nomad]

I might as well show some more images from the Oxford collections, as they might be of interest. You do not often seem to see A.S.Meek specimens of Ornithoptera from Australia. Here is a female of Ornithoptera priamus euphorion collected by A.S. Meek at Cooktown. Ex coll Herbert Druce (1846-1913). It is interesting that many authors now regard this as a distinct species, probably because this taxon does not breed with other priamus in nature.

[trehopr1]

I do admire certain aspects of the old pinning style which I have seen here posted on the forum. I particularly like the way some lepidopterists teased out the forelegs (and sometimes even the hindlegs of their specimens). Whenever possible, I too tease out the fore and hind legs of my Catocala. However, the specimen must be fresh and cooperative to do so. I noticed this caveat about British moths more so than butterflies.
I think Meeks style of teasing out the forelegs of his Ornithoptera lend them a charm unlike anyone else's. In conjunction with his style of raising the forewings a little past the perpendicular; they are simply pure art in form. And to think he was doing his work probably out in the open air !
I have also long admired the card method Europeans use to display most Coleoptera. The specimens if needed can be soaked off for study and put back on a new card. More often than not all the little legs and even antennae are smartly teased out to fit within the parameters of the card they are on. Just beautiful work !
So very much better than the mass production schlock idea of simply jabbing a pin thru a beetle and saying --- there done; put a label on it. I have seen more crooked pinned/angled beetles than I care to think. I have seen size 3 pins and larger used on ladybugs. And I have further, seen entire legs punched out due to oversize pins. Characters used in identification are also compromised due to pins. Don't know if this is an American approach to save time but, I think it's a sloppy, lousy, and speed based idea.

[nomad]

I agree, the 19th century idea of collecting beetles of all sizes and mounting the smaller ones on cards took great patience. Today, most seem to collect only the larger species and I even know a collector that does not even set them at all, he keeps them bubble wrapped to save space! Reminds me of others who keep all their butterflies papered, an Ornithoptera collector does this.

[nomad]

O. priamus poseidon. Wangaar, South Geelvink Bay, Dutch New Guinea, Far East, C, F & J Pratt. Ex coll Joicey & Talbot. Captured on the Pratt's 1921 expedition.

[trehopr1]

Wow, where is the appreciation factor at if your specimens are bubble wrapped or papered perpetually. Sure sounds eccentric to me. Down the road so to speak who in the world would want to spread, point, or put on a card hundreds or thousands of beetles? Only the most curious would likely be worked up and the rest of the common fodder trashed.
As for papered birdwings --- again what sense is that except to re-sell them for what you paid. The market is flooded with surplus birdwings since most are being bred someplace other than New Guinea. There are plenty of dealers and collectors who are sitting on spoils of old stock still. There are probably those who have papered Alexandrea from back in the day --- afraid to sell. If this collector does not feel qualified to properly spread papered Ornithoptera than why would'nt he just go to any one of several Insect fairs to purchase spread ones.
This concept these fellows have be-hooves me!

[Deleted]

Many of my old British butterflies have the legs teased out in this way, some are 150 years old and they are a wonderful sight to behold