jhyatt
Aurelian
Posts: 224
Country: U.S.A.
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Post by jhyatt on Aug 30, 2016 13:08:05 GMT
....And then of course there is the famous essay "Sugaring for Moths" in W. J. Holland's "The Moth Book". Too long to quote, but a wonderful read. He speaks of seeing, just above the wet patch of bark on the tree "a grand Catocala", C. cara, which is "not overly common". Indeed.
Nomad, your Catocala drawers are a joy to see. Thanks for posting the photos. Is it the general practice in GB to put labels beside the specimens, rather than on their pins? I can see the advantage of being able to read data without removing the insect, but it always seemed more secure to me to have the label beneath the bug. Or is it a duplicate label beside the specimen? (This is a moot point for me, since many of my drawers have moths so tightly shingled that there's no room for a label to the side).
Regards, jh
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Post by trehopr1 on Aug 31, 2016 8:02:20 GMT
I like the way Oxford spaces their specimens in the drawers ! Just enough between each to comfortably see each individual as well as easy removal -- without damage. I very much do the same method in my own collection. I personally detest shingling of specimens.
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Post by nomad on Aug 31, 2016 10:38:03 GMT
Sir Edward Bagnall Poulton, (1856-1943) the British evolutionary biologist who became the Hope Professor of Zoology at the University of Oxford in 1893 had many of the collections data labels transcribed, one was placed at the side of the specimen and one on the pin with the original data labels. It was a mammoth task and not all the Oxford collection has them, especially those specimens acquired after his death. For instance, Poulton only got half way through the British moth collection. His thoughts behind this was if researches can see the data, there would be no need to remove the data labels on the pins and thus prevent any damage to the specimen. This simple but brilliant idea was rarely used if at all in other Museums and in most private collections. The collector I.R.P. Heslop did place data labels at the specimen side with the data but only added the counties on his labels, the exact localities were written in his diaries that the Bristol museum was thankfully given with his collections.
I would be interested to know which native rare Catocala species, are most sought after by American collectors.
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jhyatt
Aurelian
Posts: 224
Country: U.S.A.
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Post by jhyatt on Aug 31, 2016 13:27:56 GMT
Ah, so there is a label on the pin as well as beside the bug! It makes a wonderful appearance, but I can see why it's not commonly done - lots of extra work, and it does use up some drawer space.
The most desired and least captured of North American Catocalas might possibly be C. marmorata. It's big, beautiful, and seldom taken. But there are a number of other uncommon species, often smaller, less showy things. Some, like C. delilah, are easily confused with something more common (in delilah's case, C. muleircula). And there are definitely undescribed species, for instance in the jair/linella/amica group of tiny species. And of course there must be some beautiful rarities in the western US, but I don't know that fauna well at all...
I don't recall the name, but I once saw a photo of a Tibetan Catocala that was almost all white, with black hw banding. Very striking. Is anyone familiar with this one?
Cheers, jh
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Post by trehopr1 on Sept 1, 2016 6:33:34 GMT
I have to concure with jhyatt on the rarity and desirability of Catocala marmorata. It truely is seldom encountered; much less collected. But, their are at least 2 other strong candidates that I can think of that vie in (equal or near equal) rarity. Those two species are Catocala sappho (Streck) and Catocala atocala (Brou). I say this from experiance. I have collected both of them and found them only as happenstance singular captures on any field excursion. Other Eastern U.S. species which I would term as "occasional" captures but, still noteable are the following: Catocala ulalume, nuptialis, gracilis, clintoni, antinympha, serena, illecta, maestosa, and cerogama. These are just the ones which immediately come to mind. I really cannot comment on the smallest species as I don't know them at all well enough. For what it's worth, I think some of the most desirable species overall for sheer beauty are Catocala relicta, cara, concumbens, nebulosa, and amatrix. To look upon a full drawer of any of these 5 species is simply breathtaking..... Relicta (our white underwing) is so variable you could easily case up 2 drawers of that species and probably still want to keep going ! Cara has a "scarlet" pink unlike any other Catocala-- period. A full drawer of that one would drop anyone's jaw ! Concumbens is of a lighter "hot" pink shading. Staggering species; sunglasses required to view a drawer of this one ! Nebulosa has varying shades of brown colors on the forewings with a slight greenish hint including orange bands on the hind wings. I snap up every good one I can find.... And lastly, amatrix (our sweetheart underwing) whose common name I think is most appropriate for such a striking and large pink species. I am not familiar with any Tibetan Catocala species as mentioned by jhyatt but, I can say that a large Japanese species called Catocala nivea is simply awesome ! Only once have I seen the species represented in a North American collection. It is as large as fraxini and possesses a gorgeous pastel yellow color (almost butterscotch) on the whole of its hind wings. Very unusual.
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Post by bobw on Sept 1, 2016 8:45:31 GMT
I don't recall the name, but I once saw a photo of a Tibetan Catocala that was almost all white, with black hw banding. Very striking. Is anyone familiar with this one? Cheers, jh I think the bug to which you refer can only be C. nivea. It is certainly the Catocala with the most white and is just about found as far west as Tibet, although it's more commonly encountered much further east in Japan. Bob
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jhyatt
Aurelian
Posts: 224
Country: U.S.A.
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Post by jhyatt on Sept 1, 2016 13:03:12 GMT
Yes, Trehopr and Bobw, the one I had in mind must be nivea. What a Catocala! Nice to know it's fairly widespread.
I've generally found cerogama and maestosa to be fairly dependable here in the southern Appalachians. Nubulosa is indeed pretty, and before we moved house across town 4 years ago was a not uncommon catch in my bait trap at the edge of the woods. Cara I've only taken once here; and cara carissima specimens from the western part of the deep south are even bigger and prettier than the nominate ssp!
Sappho I've about given up on finding. The foodplant is usually given as pecan, and I've trapped and lighted in old pecan groves many a night without success. I know a few collectors who seem to take it with regularity.
John
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Post by bobw on Jul 31, 2017 15:39:59 GMT
I thought some people may be interested to see a photo of the Catocala that I managed to rear this year. The two at bottom right are C. briseis from Canada but all the rest are from Primorye. I did have one larvae of C. nivea (mentioned previously in this thread) hatch but having lovingly nurtured it all the way through to the pupal stage it died in the pupa and never emerged!
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Post by nomad on Aug 1, 2017 6:31:19 GMT
Nice series of bred Catocala.
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Post by trehopr1 on Aug 2, 2017 2:52:37 GMT
Indeed, some very nice breeding efforts. You seem to of had a lot of success breeding the 1st two columns of species. Were the other species a lot tougher to work with as their numbers are not near as good? I've never met or heard of anyone breeding Catocala. Always saturniids.... The specimens sure look splendid when bred. I've had some luck over the years securing some "fresh hatch" clean ones --- wild collected. However, the vast majority one happens across normally have nearly always got "issues" with their wings. If your on a night when the stars aline you may be on a hatch. I well recall one night in particular back in July 2001 when in a span of about 4 hours I collected 85 fresh hatched Catocala lacrymosa; a black winged species. Every one was spot-on ! That has never happened again since but, it certainly remains memorable.
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Post by nomad on Aug 2, 2017 9:03:26 GMT
I've never met or heard of anyone breeding Catocala Considering their popularity among collectors in the States that surprised me. Perhaps collectors do not breed as much now, for the old entomologist's this was the main stay of obtained perfect specimens and to hopefully obtain an aberration.
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Post by bobw on Aug 2, 2017 12:55:53 GMT
Glad you liked them. Below is another lot I reared in previous years, except the C. bokhaica (the small one in the 2nd column) which were taken at light. All are from Primorye except the dilecta, nupta and pacta which are European. I believe there are a few people in the States who rear them and there are a few in Europe, however they're not particularly easy. Adults have to be fed regularly and can take weeks to pair after emergence, also wild-caught females often take weeks before they'll start laying and even then it can be difficult to get eggs. Hatch rate from ova that look perfectly viable is often very poor, I've had anything between 0 and 90% hatch rate but most species seem to average about 25%. I'm not in a position to sleeve them on growing trees so I do everything on cut food in plastic boxes, this tends to cause a high mortality rate in larger larvae no matter how scrupulously clean I maintain everything. I then find about 10% of pupae fail to hatch and another 5% emerge crippled. For the lot I reared this year I started out with about 500 ova! Some species are far more prone to losses as large larvae than others. As mentioned, the smaller black species (which are all oak feeders) seem to be more robust so I've had more success with them ( actaea and dissimilis in the previous photo and nagioides below), but other oak feeders are very difficult, e.g. dula. I'd love to try some north American species but so far I've been unable to get hold of any eggs.
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Post by trehopr1 on Aug 2, 2017 20:59:34 GMT
Gorgeous drawer throughout ! Spot-on specimens, beautiful spreading, and adequate spacing between each. Factor in the breeding effort to achieve them and it's obvious there is a lot of love in that drawer.... You picked some nice species to work with. Those fraxini, nupta, and pacta are especially breathtaking in their rich colors. But, the whole drawer really is time well spent in every sense. Judging by your comments Bob regarding the breeding of Catocala; it's little wonder only very experienced breeders with passion, fortitude, and dedication have any luck with these. Those that do breed anything here either focus on butterflies of various species or saturniids. Maybe some sphingids to a lesser degree. I believe collectors here for the most part either get them via bait traps or the use of lights. Both methods can work well but, both have caveats about them which equate to really good occasions being just here and there. Weather and humidity (or lack of it) and temperature (too cool or hot) greatly effects both. Sugaring although a time honored method for baiting Catocala seems little practiced these days as little or no mention is ever made of it on the other website where Catocala discussions have their own thread. "Tree tapping" as it is called is utilized by a few of the dedicated as an alternative way of finding them. However, it involves legwork and the heat of day. As for myself I on occasion will go out and do "tree looking" for Catocala. My approach is not so much as to startle them to reveal themselves but, instead to stealthily approach each tree with sharpened eye and heightened attentiveness to detail --- to find my resting quarry. Catocala are delightful moths with their many species but, good specimens are generally earned thru time and repeated efforts.
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